Comments: General Convention update

"Schism must not be allowed to happen"???

But it did several years ago at Dromantine, when some Bishops refused to take communion from the hands of Dr Rowan himself, no less.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 10:38am BST

What Göran said!

Every era has its "presenting issue," over which some will refuse fellowship with other followers of Christ, but it keeps changing -- thus the historically based denominational divisions so often seem to keep like minded believers apart & yoke people whose beliefs differ so greatly -- it is so hard to get back together (an argument not to split in the first place) -- those playing the numbers game pretend that the large African churches have not already boycotted Lambeth.

Posted by Prior Aelred at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 2:50pm BST

"Schism must not be allowed to happen"

...and it happened rather formally with the creation in North America and the UK of FOCA, where those who understand opposition to homosexuality as an indisputable core tenet of the Christian faith can agree to agree.

Posted by christopher+ at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 4:38pm BST

Not their finest hour? I think the Americans are pointing the way forward. They are right to encourage gay couples (and gay selfacceptance) all they can -- not only because the alternatives are promiscuity, perversion, disease, and desolate old age -- but because love is a creative project at the heart of the Gospel. Katharine Jefferts-Schori is right: to be gay fundamentally means to have a vocation to love people of one's own sex. It is a positive and blessed condition. A Christian church cannot treat the hatemongers like Akinola as equally credible with the apostles of love like Jefferts-Schori.

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 4:43pm BST

"...and it happened rather formally with the creation in North America and the UK of FOCA, where those who understand opposition to homosexuality as an indisputable core tenet of the Christian faith can agree to agree."

To me, this is perhaps the strangest aspect of the dispute. Any accommodation of historic understanding of Scripture or Tradition on the part of Anglicanism can be embraced, or at least allowed: remarriage after divorce, birth control, the ordination of women. Any older modifications we inherited from the common experience of Western Christianity - charging interest, abandoning the dietary restrictions of Acts 15 - are fine, too. But mention homosexuality, and people start spouting nonsense about unchanging biblical standards and how binding Tradition is.

It's all very selective, and if I did not know any better it would make me think that something other than a pious concern for Tradition and doctrinal purity were at the base of much of it. ;-)

Posted by BillyD at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 6:46pm BST

Oh, Spirit.

Yet again, I salute you.

Posted by john at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 6:47pm BST

Aren't there something like 150 bishops (w/ a simple majority needed for confirmation)?

Of course, the proof is in the pudding---what happens when a (partnered) LGBT person is actually ELECTED bishop (for the second time after +Robinson)---but ~20 bishops committed to sustaining a (NEVER approved by TEC!) moratorium, doesn't seem like too much of a threat. (OCICBW)

God bless TEC! :-D

Posted by JCF at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 6:53pm BST

"It's all very selective, and if I did not know any better it would make me think that something other than a pious concern for Tradition and doctrinal purity were at the base of much of it. ;-)"

Well, yes. And isn't it amazing how otherwise educated, intelligent, sometimes even wise people, seem totally unable to see how hypocritical they look because of it? Also, the hoops they will jump through to justify they acceptance opf their particular "innovations", to throw their word back at them, while allowing no such manouvers when it comes to gay people. The ones I find most maddening in this are ordained women. How can someone hope to be taken seriously making the argument that the same process of Scriptural discernment that led to a change of a 2000 year old, give or take, tradition is great if it permits her to have a collar on her neck, but utterly unacceptable when it comes to accepting gay people? For a female priest to argue in that fashion takes more nerve than a toothache.

Posted by Ford Elms at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 7:43pm BST

What is the meaning of

"The Episcopal Church should move forward" ?

Is the minority moving "backward"?

Posted by J. Michael Povey at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 11:46pm BST

J. Michael:

No, but it is certainly standing still. And when the rest of the world IS moving forward, anyone will tell you the relative motion of the person standing still is, indeed, in reverse.

Posted by Pat O'Neill at Friday, 17 July 2009 at 11:55pm BST

"The ones I find most maddening in this are ordained women. How can someone hope to be taken seriously making the argument that the same process of Scriptural discernment that led to a change of a 2000 year old, give or take, tradition is great if it permits her to have a collar on her neck, but utterly unacceptable when it comes to accepting gay people? For a female priest to argue in that fashion takes more nerve than a toothache."

I think in the Anglo-Catholic camps (sorry, hate it when these puns happens!) of ACNA there is probably much more self-hate of closeted gay men than one would imagine, and it is equally hypocritical. Along with this are the high-churchman that broke off due to women's ordination thirty years ago, and the irony escapes them. Truly sad. Truly wasteful.

It all comes down to being honest with oneself, and that's a very hard thing for many to do.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 2:29am BST

"Is the minority moving "backward"?"

No, I am pretty sure that they have flown off to Never, Never Land.

Posted by David |dah•veed| at Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 5:50am BST

Ford, the very first priest to leave my old diocese over Robinson's election was a woman.

I was, like you, stunned by the gall of it. Not to mention the boneheaded obliviousness.

Posted by JPM at Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 3:52pm BST

"Katharine Jefferts-Schori is right: to be gay fundamentally means to have a vocation to love people of one's own sex. It is a positive and blessed condition. A Christian church cannot treat the hatemongers like Akinola as equally credible with the apostles of love like Jefferts-Schori." - Spirit of Vatican II -

- And, like the apostle of love, Pope John XXIII, who in our day and age might even have ordained women like Katherine Jefferts-Schori; S.of V.II hits the nail on the head. One only has to compare the Gospel content of the nay-sayers with that of the new prophetic voices in the Church. TEC may yet lead the way for authentic '3-legged stool' Anglicans around the world.

(Note to those who would prefer their suspended lack of animation: the 3-legged stool still does include REASON as one of its components. Blind adherence to magisterial imperatives was ever a hindrance to true understanding.)

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 22 July 2009 at 11:24am BST

"to be gay fundamentally means to have a vocation to love people of one's own sex."

Oh, please, Mary! Being gay is a vocation? That's a little grandiose, girlfriend. I mean, it just goes as far in the other direction as the conservatives go in their "not made by God" nonsense. My relationship is quite nice, thank you very much, and I do believe God has in some way or another led me to it. But a vocation!?!?! Thanks for the chuckle on this grey cloudy morning.

Posted by Ford Elms at Thursday, 23 July 2009 at 1:13pm BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.