Comments: Los Angeles suffragans complete consent process

It could hardly have been otherwise given her total suitability. Good news nonetheless.

Hopefully she will be subject to less hysteria than Gene has been.

Posted by Rev L Roberts at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 8:10am GMT

Probably Mary Glasspool will receive far less objection--

For one thing, being a woman, those who think women should never be bishops simply won't consider her one anyway and thus ignore her; for another, the homophobes seem to have a lot more problem with male homosexuality than female, probably due to the "ick" factor among so many of them.

Posted by Pat O'Neill at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 10:34am GMT

Hopefully, the more gay/lesbian Bishops there are the less they will be subject to the outrageous protests and calumny of the pioneers. Good luck to them.

Posted by Richard Ashby at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 10:41am GMT

I see the AAC and the Archbishop of Sydney have put out statements. +Peter Jensen suggests this is a decisive moment...but its not clear to me what exactly he thinks/hopes/wishes will happen.Any guesses folks?

Posted by Perry Butler at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 11:39am GMT

As someone said, "in LentI don't use the A word, but it is ringing in my heart."

She and her fellow Suffragan will be consecrated in Long Beach on May 15. May 14-15 is the annual Long Beach gay pride weekend.

I, too, hope she has an easier time than +Gene. The sad thing is, in the last year and a half, our secular politics have become angrier and louder, and sometimes downright scary. I hope that doesn't slop over into the church. Some of TEC's most vigorous anti-gay people are no longer TEC.

Despite all of that, the A word rings out loud and clear in my heart too.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 11:51am GMT

I too hope that this is the beginning of the end for this nonsense of attacking TEC. I think any reasonable person aware today should see the "intrinsically disordered" affairs of another large denomination that is in retreat in the dailies, covered in lies and scandal, and hopelessly defending an outdated and ridiculous dogma. This consent of election is a refreshing breath of fresh air of overall stale Christian religion, and we should be thankful for it.

Posted by evensongjunkie (formerly cbfh) at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 2:52pm GMT

Five reasons to Time to rejoice and give thanks. (Two posts, because I do go on.)

First, Mary Glasspool is a person of great skills, and remarkable faith and character. In Los Angeles we are so happy to have both Diane and Mary as our new bishops suffragan.

Second, obtaining the consents to Mary's election from the majority of standing committees and bishops with jurisdiction represents a strong stand that TEC will not discriminate against candidates for any office in our Church on the basis of sexual orientation.

Third a clear message is being delivered by TEC to the Anglican Communion and the ABC: we do not accept injustice and oppression of LGBT people as the basis for unity in the Communion. We have seen the naked face of this opression in anti-gay legislation that deprives LGBT persons of basic human rights in several countries in Africa, Asia,and the Carribean. We have seen the beatings, jailings, rapes, imprisonment, burnings, and murders. We have seen Anglican Churches in several of these countries support these horrors by their silence, or even actively campaign to destroy the lives of LGBT persons. The religious statement recently published by several of the judicatories of Uganda, including the Anglican archbishop, while it opposes imprisonment and capital punishment for LGBT persons, denies them their basic civil rights and even denies their right to exist.These anti-gay Churches advocate a form of psychological genocide against LGBT persons, not recognizing their authentic personhood, a strategy that had led to disproportionately high numbers of suicides. When one's religious leaders teach that God does not love you as you experience yourself to be; that you are really a perverted form of another kind of person; that the demonic has taken hold in you; that you have no right to exist as you are; can it be any wonder that so many take this message to heart and end their lives by their own hands? We are no longer willing to collude in this violence and oppression. We cannot accept injustice and oppression as a basis of unity in the Communion.

Posted by karen macqueen+ at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 5:00pm GMT

Fourth, the moratorium that our House of Bishops accepted was for a "time of listening" to the experiences of LGBT persons. During that time the only known gay bishop in the Communion was barred from the Lambeth Conference and silenced in the Councils of the Comunion. The Churches referred to above have refused to "listen". The materials that TEC presented for the "listening process" have been derided and cast aside by those who most need to "listen".

Fifth, we have seen the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the persons of LGBT members of TEC. We have seen the fruits of the Holy Spirit in their relationships. As a Church, we welcome them and honor them, and we believe that Baptism confers full inclusion in our Church. We are not interested in the model of the CofE. The established Church in England refuses to bless the lawful unions of gay persons in their parishes, sending Christian couples out of the Church to find the blessing of God elsewhere. This is the model that RW promotes for the whole Communion. We are not to bless same sex loving relationships. We are not to ordain or consecrate persons in same sex loving relationships. We are to send them out of the Church to find these relationships with God. In TEC, we say "no thanks" to such a strange pastoral theology. We say "no thanks" to RW, who thinks that "mere human and civil rights" lack substantial theological and religious significance as one basis for inclusion. We do say "yes" to LGBT persons. IN TEC, we welcome you. Thank God!

Posted by karen macqueen+ at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 5:02pm GMT

"Hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church!"

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 6:31pm GMT

I'd have to agree with Karen+, adding only NUFF SAID!!

Posted by David G at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 8:28pm GMT

Someone posted to one of my lists that the ABC had issued a statement - true? If so, where may it be found? And Karen+, thank you for a cogent and tempered commentary. After a cold and snowy winter here in Virginia, the sun is out, the snow is gone, and crocci are bustin' out all over. There is indeed an "A" in my heart!

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Thursday, 18 March 2010 at 8:45pm GMT

"Third a clear message is being delivered by TEC to the Anglican Communion and the ABC: we do not accept injustice and oppression of LGBT people as the basis for unity in the Communion." - Karen macqueen+ -

This confirms my understanding that TEC is a truly prophetic voice for the whole of the Communion - on the issues of gender and sexual discrimination in the Church. Whatever the Opposition may try to put in place to prevent the episcopal ordination of two legally elected and affirmed candidates for
service in the Los Angeles Diocese of TEC, my prayer (and, I suspect, the prayers of many of us in other Provinces of the Anglican Communion), is that both Mary and Diane will prove to have been God's choice for today's Church in the U.S.A.

Don't take too much notice of Archbishop Peter Jensen. He is soon due for retirement from his exalted position in the Anglican Church of the Sydney Diocese - which is not quite the same as the Anglican Church of the rest of Australia. He will probably have to move to his spiritual home in Nigeria to be safe from women and gays.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 2:06am GMT

Joy! Joy! Ineffable Joy! Gloria in Excelsis Deo!

Posted by JCF at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 2:08am GMT

Thank you, karen macqueen. Anything I could say, you've said better.
I'm in the TEC Diocese of Colorado. I can't get a simple answer to whether the diocesan standing committee or the diocesan bishop here has given an assent, has voted "nay", or has done nothing so far. When I ask, the diocesan office here acts like Sargeant Schultz of the old American comedy show "Hogan's Heroes": They see nothing, they hear nothing, they know nothing. Is there an official site that shows who has given assents, who has voted "no", and who hasn't acted?

Posted by peterpi at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 5:25am GMT

Kendall Harmon's website has trumpeted a statement from Lambeth Palace, which has been repeated in the usual places. He has been asked to provide a link to the statement, but has failed to do so, instead writing that he has 'verified' it with Lambeth Palace. I have written to Lambeth Palace and asked them to verify the statement - it does not appear on their website.

Posted by Canon Andrew Godsall at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 9:48am GMT

One post on a conservative blog states that the Lambeth announcement is not quite a public thing - at least not yet - apparently it is available by request only - a rather odd way to disseminate information of this type. Wonder if a broader distribution channel will open up....

Posted by ettu at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 11:27am GMT

Canon Godsall, over on the primary other "usual place", Greg Griffith notes that Lambeth Palace is only providing this statement to those who request it which means it was likely via email. Do you really believe that Canon Harmon made up the statement and then falsely attributed it?

Posted by Charles at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 11:56am GMT

I don't believe or dis-believe anything about this matter Charles, I am simply seeking clarification of a confusing series of posts on Kendall Harmon's website. I am a former journalist and was taught to check my sources very carefully. I have accordingly written to Lambeth Palace, but as yet have received no response.

Posted by Canon Andrew Godsall at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 4:03pm GMT

Quite right, Karen MacQueen, well said. Thank God for the Episcopal Church and its stand for authentic Anglican Christianity.

I repeatedly feel embarrassed by the failure of English prelates to come up with a pastoral, intelligent or decent way to deal with their own gay faithful. Please don't think they represent the view of many of the 25 million English people who call themselves Anglican: the bishops are certainly already on the extreme weird edge of British society vis-a-vis gay people, and becoming ever more so, one fears.

Before long, the C of E bishops will have only the BNP for company occupying the far right of the range of viewpoints regarding gay people in Britain: a lamentable situation to have got themselves into.

Posted by Fr Mark at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 4:58pm GMT

" ...apparently it is available by request only - a rather odd way to disseminate information of this type..."

Well it is odd. More like the way the Vatican behaves. I suspect that since the announcement of the election, His Fuzziness has been on the phone to Africa a lot, trying to tamp down incendiary responses. Do we not yet have thunder from Uganda, Nigeria, and the rest of the gang?

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 8:10pm GMT

Karen: "...a clear message is being delivered by TEC to the Anglican Communion and the ABC: we do not accept injustice and oppression of LGBT people as the basis for unity in the Communion."

Thank you. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. There is no way that people should be side-lined or marginalised, or have their gifts and skills set aside for others to exercise, simply because of their orientation.

I think TEC is a prophetic voice and a beacon, in a world with too much dark homophobia and transphobia and fear.

May God bless others through the gifts, faith, and ministry of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered Christians, as well as those who are heterosexual or cisgendered or who don't identify as any of these things.

First and foremost, may we recognise that everything is gift, all of the life we are given, day by day, and ministry is not about status but about getting on with love in the name of Christ with a humble heart.

Posted by Susannah Clark at Friday, 19 March 2010 at 10:11pm GMT

I also have noticed an eerie quiet; very little of the usual thunder from the usual sources.

I think everyone involved realizes that this time, whatever it is, it's for keeps.

Posted by Charlotte at Saturday, 20 March 2010 at 12:15am GMT

The Episcopal Church does not answer to Lambeth and never has, since its founding more than 200 years ago.

Why does Rowan Williams think he's suddenly entitled to tell Episcopalians what to do?

He's not. And if he tries, he will fall flat on his face, and he will be ignored. So he shouldn't try.

Why should Canterbury pretend to possess a degree of influence that it does not have now and never did have?

Posted by Jeremy at Saturday, 20 March 2010 at 3:37am GMT

Before you read this comment, please read the Fulcrum comment, which makes it clear what will happen next.

What will happen next is not under TEC's control, and there is no point in saying anything about it. My post is concerned only with the response I believe TEC should make to what is going to happen next.

Fulcrum's statement makes it clear that we have only two choices:

* Remain in the Communion at the price of sacrificing our consciences and consenting to do what we believe to be wrong,

* Or allow the Communion to expel us, while pursuing the real bonds of affection we have with churches that are really, theologically and otherwise, related to us.

We are already in full communion with ELCA (the largest group of US Lutherans) and a number of other gay-affirming mainline Protestant denominations. Why not pursue complete unity with them?

Either we seek a false and morally compromising unity with our stony-hearted opponents, or we seek a real unity with the churches we are really related to, geographically, historically, theologically.

Posted by Charlotte at Saturday, 20 March 2010 at 4:16pm GMT

Charlotte, you are giving Fulcrum et al far too much authority that they simply don't have. Fulcrum is nothing more than a pressure group of the (relatively speaking) moderate right. In that respect, a Fulcrum statement has no more authority (and usually less coherence) than a statement from Changing Attitude, Integrity, Stand Firm or any other pressure / advocacy group associated with either side.

It would be a betrayal of the Gospel for your hurch or mine to walk away. Let the extremists try to expel us. I think they will find that the moderates are simply not prepared to go that far.

Posted by Malcolm+ at Monday, 22 March 2010 at 2:29pm GMT

Rather than being expelled, aren't these actions really more along the lines of expelling oneself? Afterall, the instruments of Communion have articulated again and again that this action is outside the minimal limits of maintaining Communion.

Accordingly, Schori should step down from the Standing Committee. The really big question: Will Williams (or the rest of the cmte.) ask her to step down if she has the temerity to try to retain her post?

Posted by Rob+ at Monday, 22 March 2010 at 9:03pm GMT

A couple of points: 1) If TEC is "expelled" from the Anglican Communion, then communion will have to be impaired with the Church of Sweden too, I guess, since they have a lesbian bishop in Stockholm.
2) The Episcopal Church has too many old and dear friends in the Anglican Communion for some fit-fueled fiat from Cantuar to make much of a difference, even if it is a sort of expulsion declaration. Scotland, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada come directly to mind as whole Provinces, and of course many dioceses and bishops in other places will continue to declare themselves in communion with TEC, and that's just on the national/diocesan level.
And a question: When is Cantuar going to rail so loudly and aggressively against those Anti-Christian prelates in Uganda and Nigeria? I'm waiting.

Posted by Clint Davis at Monday, 22 March 2010 at 11:38pm GMT

'Rather than being expelled, aren't these actions really more along the lines of expelling oneself?'

Posted by: Rob+ on Monday, 22 March 2010 at 9:03pm

Well, no. In actual fact No. So glad to have cleared that up for you. Now was there anything else ?

When it comes to temerity, I would nt put the PB ahead of the field at all RobX.

Posted by Rev L Roberts at Tuesday, 23 March 2010 at 8:15pm GMT

@ Rob+

To paraphrase: The Archbishop of Canterbury has no authority in the Episcopal Church.

Nor for that matter in the many other autonomous churches in the Anglican Communion. Nor does the Lambeth Conference. Nor do the Primates as a group.

Much as those who mutter about "ecclesial deficits" might wish the Anglican Communion were like the Church of Rome, it is not and never has been.

Thank goodness!

Posted by Jeremy at Wednesday, 24 March 2010 at 12:18pm GMT

I understand that most people posting on Thinking Anglicans will tend to preach to the choir on this one, as Karen most certainly does - I guess we can all tend to that. But I struggle with the fact that a goodly number of posters here seem to do so with a spirit of such aggression and denigration to sisters and brothers who think differently. If it's wrong to be prejudiced against LBGT people (and it is) - then what makes it right to be gratuitously rude to those who differ from us? And please don't tell me that it's the rightness of the cause. (The end justifies the means?)
So - the ABC has no right to tell TEC what to do? I think he knows that. But then by the same token TEC has no right to tell any other part of the communion what to do, either. So where does that leave us - with no 'rights'? Perhaps with bonds of affection? Sadly it doesn't feel like it reading here...

Posted by pete Hobson at Monday, 29 March 2010 at 11:51pm BST
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