Comments: LGBT Anglican Coalition writes to the Archbishop of Canterbury

This is a fine and thoughtful letter. I hope that the ABC will reply in kind. I am not holding my breath, however.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Tuesday, 12 October 2010 at 12:59pm BST

Oh yeah, I'm sure Rowan is listening ... as if ... alas. And what exactly, Rowan, is the holy believer beef with committed relationships?

I dare you to publish an explanation that does not presume/rely on flat earth assumptions about queer folks while neatly sidestepping the empirical research since, say, World War II.

Go ahead,Rowan, we're waiting....

Posted by drdanfee at Tuesday, 12 October 2010 at 5:14pm BST

Hear what the spirit says to the churches.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Tuesday, 12 October 2010 at 6:13pm BST

The LGBT Anglican Coalition's letter to the ABC is nothing other than might be expected in the light of Rowan's admission that, for him, he has no problem with gay priests or bishops.

The real problem would seem to be the implication of loving sexual monogamous relationship which might be involved within a civil partnership involving the clergy. This, for the ABC, is at the heart of his personal difficulty with such relationships.

Surely it is now time for, not only the ABC but the whole Church, to recognise the fact that such a phenomenon as homosexuality - and other natural features of sexuality, per se - are within the parameters of acceptable expressions of human
being and therefore, human behaviour.

As with heterosexuals amongst us; there are some clergy - at least within the Anglican Communion (and, of course, this is a reality for all human beings) who have an entirely natural and laudable desire to love another human being of their own gender, in the deepest way possible - and that includes the exercise of one's sexuality.

This does not, of course, rule out the obvious possibility that there will be some clergy - as there are some other classes in society - who wish, voluntarily, to live the celibate life - and this may well be within the bonds of a life-long committed relationship; whether between two persons of the opposite, or of the same, gender.

John Henry Newman may well have been an example of one such relationship with his life-long male partner. The dynamics of such a relationship, and the pattern of behaviour within it, ought never to be judged as 'illicit' by anyone one - much less by the Church. The only difference, perhaps, between the raltionship of JHN with Fr.St.John, and that of Jeffrey John with his partner, is that JHN's relationship could never have been recognised by either Church or State as what we now are plaesed to call a Civil Partnership.

It is time our Church became outwardly honest about such relationships - either open or hidden -that already persist in the Church, and simply will not go away. 'Honesty if the best policy!'

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 13 October 2010 at 12:54am BST

Meanwhile the Archbishop addresses other issues very helpfully: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/mpd/permalink/m187ZUMXL9YWMZ

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Wednesday, 13 October 2010 at 7:03am BST

They should ask , if the Church of England can change on divorce and contraception..why not this?

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Wednesday, 13 October 2010 at 8:07pm BST

Thank you, Spirit of Vatican II, for this link with the ABC's talk about world economics. This is just one more indication that we have an Archbishop of Canterbury of some substance. His deep intelligence and understanding of world issues is refreshing - especially when we are wont to criticise his public utterances about gender and sexuality. However, as an intellect of world-class politico-religious standard, Rowan has much to contribute on the world stage.

One might hope that he now might comment on the newly-advertised 'Singularity' school of research in the U.S., whose agenda includes finding a method of delivering virtually 'eternal life' in the sphere of eugenics, which allows of a plan to develop nano organisms which will help in the process of human biology accessing technological means to replace body organs - such as the brain, heart, etc.

It would seem that such research might just be going beyond the limits of our creaturely status, giving us, virtually, the power of the Creator.
While applauding the scientific advances made, which have extended supportable life to it's present longevity, one might ask 'Who actually weould want to live for ever? And what would we do about over-population - except, perhaps to occupy other celestial spheres'?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 13 October 2010 at 11:21pm BST

"They should ask, if the Church of England can change on divorce and contraception..why not this?"

Indeed, RIW. Changed---away from the Pope and *towards Christ and Christ's Gospel*---before. Why not follow Christ, and preach (actually!) GOOD News again?

For Christ's (Queer) Kingdom: HALLELUJAH! :-D

Posted by JCF at Thursday, 14 October 2010 at 3:25am BST

"research in the U.S., whose agenda includes finding a method of delivering virtually 'eternal life' in the sphere of eugenics, which allows of a plan to develop nano organisms which will help in the process of human biology accessing technological means to replace body organs - such as the brain, heart, etc."

Newly 'advertised' where? This sounds like an internet hoax or a Glenn Beck 'discovery.'

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Thursday, 14 October 2010 at 4:47am BST

Fr Ron Smith, glad you agree -- I don't remember any Archbishop who has made such a huge impact in the English-speaking world and become so accepted as a beloved father-figure; disagreement about the Covenant or gay-related issues should not overshadow this. It is really hard to think of anyone who would grace the throne of Augustine so well.

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Thursday, 14 October 2010 at 8:48am BST

They should ask , if the Church of England can change on divorce and contraception..why not this?

Posted by: Robert Ian Williams on Wednesday, 13 October 2010 at 8:07pm BST

Very good point, Robert.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Thursday, 14 October 2010 at 2:59pm BST

In short. This is bad governance.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Friday, 15 October 2010 at 6:12am BST

"They should ask , if the Church of England can change on divorce and contraception..why not this?"

I think RW already answered that question in "the body's grace". The RCC has always been very liberal in granting divorces and annulments and is possibly more liberal than Anglicanism at this time. As to contraception, I doubt it there is any substantial difference between the two churches in the thinking and practice of the faithful. So really, the above question is best addressed to Roman Catholicism.

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Friday, 15 October 2010 at 7:36am BST

'Newly 'advertised' where? This sounds like an internet hoax or a Glenn Beck 'discovery.'

- Posted by: Cynthia Gilliatt on Thursday -

In a N.Z. television programme a few nights ago, we were treated to an interview with several shcolarly persons whose background has fitted them for research into the amazing field of a new biological/technological breakthrough into the future of the interface between new technology and the replication of human body organs. This might have seemed unreal, except that there were two N.Z. brothers interviewecd who were involved in the research in the USA.

Perhaps, Cynthia, you could take the trouble to look up the word 'Singularity' on your browser. The scientific world really is amazing to those willing and able to access the details.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 15 October 2010 at 9:07am BST

Father Ron Smith

I hate to burst the bubble, but the considered opinion of microbiologists and infectious disease experts is that the antibiotic era is almost over, and that as a direct result human mortality and morbidity will rapidly increase to very high levels. Since antibiotic usage is the prerequisite for intensive livestock rearing the era of cheap protein will end, and that too will greatly increase human mortality and morbidity.

In more specific terms, transplant surgery will come to a rapid halt, since safe surgery itself depends on effective antibiotics being available. Furthermore, successful transplants require immune suppression, which rapidly results in patients acquiring a wide variety of infections; without effective antibiotics the result is likely to be swiftly fatal.

It is for this reason that yet more money is being poured into research on gene therapy for such conditions as cystic fibrosis; without effective antibiotics to counter the infections in the lung, and without transplants to replace the damaged lungs, life expectancy will once more revert to a short period.

The Utopian, or possibly dystopian, fantasy of the Singularity depends on obdurately ignoring the scientific evidence; oddly enough, Rowan Williams' approach to LGBT people suffers from the same flaw...

Posted by chenier1 at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 3:53pm BST

Chenier1. One inevitably has the need to bow to superior evidence. Perhaps you, chenier, will inform the singularity crowd of your rightness.
Best of Luck!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 3:02am BST
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