Comments: South Carolina diocesan news

So now we understand what +Michael Nazir-Ali meant when he resigned the See of Rochester to come to the aid of persecuted Christians. He meant he would take up an appointment in the U.S. state of South Carolina, "the buckle on the Bible Belt."

Positively Orwellian.

I wonder if Canon Dr. Chris Sugden will do the same?

Posted by Charlotte at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 12:36am BST

What can one say?

Lord have mercy.
Begin the presentment.

God bless the Episcopal Church---God bless the faithful Episcopalians in the (soon-to-be-reforming) Diocese of South Carolina!

Posted by JCF at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 5:03am BST

The real meaning of orthodoxy?

Bishop lawrence claims to be of the Anglo Catholic tradition... Nazir Ali, a former Roman catholic , is evangelical in his Churchmanship. Indeed I remember him writing an article in the Church of England Newspaper condemning the Orthodox for their unscriptural views on the Eucharist, icons and intercession of the Saints.

Look how these persons stretch their views of orthodoxy to fight the gay agenda in TEC!

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 7:00am BST

Can I draw attention to the detailed announcement about Bishop Michael that I have just added to the article. This is a very part-time appointment, and should leave plenty of time for his other activities.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 9:32am BST

Wondered, when Nazir-Ali quit his day job, if he was doing a Sarah Palin.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 10:15am BST

I always felt it would turn out like this. He always seemed agin TEC. But the liberality of TEC led to his acceptance as bishop. It's always the liberal issue isn't it ? Be liberal, but don't expect your liberality to be noticed, appreciated or reciprocated.

A real dilemma.

The PB just gives and gives. And part of that is her courage in saying how she sees it, and holding boundaries.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 12:20pm BST

"Can I draw attention to the detailed announcement about Bishop Michael that I have just added to the article. This is a very part-time appointment, and should leave plenty of time for his other activities"

Oh goody. I am tired of these meddlesome foreign prelates. Too bad Homeland Security didn't make one of their occasional misidentifications of overseas travelers and sent him back as a terrorist.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 12:51pm BST

I haven't posted in ages because there really seems to be nothing new to say -- this is really Fort Sumter redux ... & re: "liberals" -- wasn't it Robert Frost who described someone as being so liberal that he wouldn't even take his own side in an argument? Allowing someone else to have the opinion that you should be utterly destroyed might be a a sound philosophical and Gospel principal, but it is not without its dangers ...

Posted by Prior Aelred at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 1:30pm BST

The Diocese of South Carolina has indicated that it will not abide by title changes it believes are unconstitutional. The Bishop of San Diego says there is probably a serious discussion to be had about that, but then refuses to have one. This, on the grounds that even if SC is correct, it is wrong to tie this to a strategy for diocesan autonomy. And that, he concludes, is what SC is doing. Well, if title changes are indeed unconstitutional, and chancellors of dioceses advise their bishops, standing committees and diocesan conventions that this is so, then it would be wrong for Title IV to be adopted as it is written.
It is a very far cry from this state of affairs to say that the Diocese of South Carolina is leaving the Episcopal Church. A better way to put it is, they are staying, unlike ACNA.
Now what will happen? The odds are very great that the PB will use Title IV to depose the Bishop of SC. Or, perhaps she will not wait until July 2011, and she can say, as with other cases (+Henry Scriven) that he has 'renounced his orders.' How will this make it possible to draw the conclusion that the Diocese of SC is leaving? Rather, the conclusion will be that their Bishop is deposed, by Title IV means or by some other means.
Will the Bishop's deposition be accepted by the Standing Committee? Probably unlikely. So we will have a state of affairs where the Bishop and Diocese ignore a deposition. Will the PB seek to 'oust' the Bishop through civil court remedy? Boy, that would seem very much an uphill climb.
No, it does not look like the Diocese of SC is leaving TEC, but staying. What the deposing of him will lead to, however, is anybody's guess.

Posted by goodbye at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 8:29pm BST

As we like to joke about in this part of the U.S., "South Carolina: too big to be an insane asylum, too small to be its own country." ;->

Posted by David H. at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 9:57pm BST

I think it is a real danger Prior Aelred. A dilemma.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Saturday, 16 October 2010 at 11:06pm BST

goodbye, at this point Bishop Lawrence has not announced that he has functionally joined an ecclesial body that is not the Episcopal Church, nor that he nor South Carolina are leaving the Episcopal Church - at this point. He may well do so, or he may not. At this point the Presiding Bishop has no grounds to bring charges.

However, other bishops and/or faithful Episcopalians in his diocese may find that they have - say, for example, for violating the discipline of the Episcopal Church as described in *both* Constitution and Canons.

Posted by Marshall Scott at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 1:57am BST

"In May of this year, the Reverend Dr. Kendall Harmon and I traveled to Nashotah House to meet with the Rt. Rev. Michael Nazir-Ali, retired Bishop of Rochester in England and one of the most respected figures in the Anglican Communion. We discussed the possibility of forming a relationship between him and the Diocese of South Carolina." - South Carolina Diocesan web-site -

On e seriously begins to wonder what future the 3 persons indicated in the above statement on the S.C. web-site presently hold within the world-wide Anglican Communion. 'Respect' is not usually associated with 'rebellion', which is what each of these persons has been associated with in the recent past. For ex-diocesan bishop Nazir-Ali to ally himself with a would be dissident diocese in TEC is hardly calculated to endear him to those in the episcopal Church of the U.S. who holr to the hope of inclusivity in the Gospel for every Province of the Anglican Communion.

The place of Nashotah House as a TEC theological establishment must surely be in danger of further disrepute if it continues to nurture the 'cuckoo in the nest' mentality which welcomes overseas activists in order to subvert the Gospel intentions of it's host Province

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 2:40am BST

"In May of this year, the Reverend Dr. Kendall Harmon and I traveled to Nashotah House to meet with the Rt. Rev. Michael Nazir-Ali, retired Bishop of Rochester in England and one of the most respected figures in the Anglican Communion. We discussed the possibility of forming a relationship between him and the Diocese of South Carolina." - South Carolina Diocesan web-site -

One seriously begins to wonder what future the 3 persons indicated in the above statement on the S.C. web-site presently hold within the world-wide Anglican Communion. 'Respect' is not usually associated with 'rebellion', which is what each of these persons has been associated with in the recent past. For ex-diocesan bishop Nazir-Ali to ally himself with a would-be dissident diocese in TEC is hardly calculated to endear him to those in the Episcopal Church of the U.S. who hold to the hope of inclusivity in the Gospel for every Province of the Anglican Communion.

The place of Nashotah House as a TEC theological establishment must surely be in danger of further disrepute if it continues to nurture the 'cuckoo in the nest' mentality which welcomes overseas activists in order to subvert the Gospel intentions of its host Province

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 2:41am BST

Goodbye's rhetoric is interesting. Beginning with a statement like "the odds are very good that" then converting it into a fact within a few sentences. An old trick in the poisonous world of politics, of course.

I have no further use for any of this. Let the dead bury their dead. As of right now, I am giving up on all of you.

Posted by Charlotte at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 2:44am BST

Ugly politics, ugly religion. All ugly, all sad, all useless.

Posted by Charlotte at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 5:52am BST

Nazir-Ali may be part time, but you can bet he is being well paid for his services!

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 7:00am BST

SC is not leaving TEC. But this will not be the grounds for presentment/deposition. The PB does not need SC to 'leave' in order to depose its Bishop. She can claim he has renounced his orders -- as with +Henry Scriven. Come July 2011, she can claim he is disturbing the good order of the church, a la Title IV. She has dispatched an attorney to represent the national church. She believes the actions he is presently taking -- which are taken, ironically, so as to remain in the church according to its constitution and not leave -- are grounds for his being disciplined. She has asked five Bishops to speak with him. She refuses to respond to the letter sent to her from SC requesting clarification for her naming a SC counsel for the national church. You see the situation is very fair and patient terms, Marshall Scott. We shall see how long it takes before action is taken against the Bishop.

Posted by goodbye at Sunday, 17 October 2010 at 1:44pm BST

@ the aptly named "goodbye": how can we miss (x)Lawrence if he just won't go?

But seriously, goodbye: I gotta hand it to you. That was an extremely well-constructed piece of spin!

...and if I stand on my head and hold my breath long enough, your Bizarro-world declarations (where "leaving" equals "staying", and "changing SC's diocesan canons"---to SEPARATE itself from TEC and the authority of the *General Convention* {not your bete noir of ++KJS}---equals "protecting the continuing relationship of the diocese w/ TEC") might begin to make some sense!

But sans asphyxia and vertigo, goodbye, your dramatic apologia reads for the "**** ***, TEC, WE'RE OUTTA HERE!" it really is. Be as paranoid as you desire, but believe me, NO ONE is going to stop you if you're so determined to part from us. Just leave the keys by the big red doors on the way out? Go with God's travelin' mercies...

Posted by JCF at Monday, 18 October 2010 at 7:14am BST
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