Comments: Ordinariate - English RC bishops issue press statement

I think this is slipshod and hasty!!

There will be many regrets from the RCC for this almost total abrogation of their normal procedures.

All my mates who have Poped in the past spent a couple of years (at least) at the Beda or some other seminary. Roman Catholic formation has been cheapened and made a nonsense by this, and I see no good reason for it!
Provision can easily be made by former Anglican priests who have been through the proper training and there is absolutely no reason who laity should be short changed and not receive the full RCIA.

Repentance and leisure are the two words that spring to mind.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 3:00pm GMT

"These boots are made fer walkin', and that what they'll do, and some day these boots are gonna to walk all over you..." (Descending chromatic bass guitar line) Nancy Sinatra couldn't have said it any better.....

Posted by evensongjunkie at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 3:43pm GMT

As a solo swimmer, I can see that the formation time is short, far short of the RCIA process that I went through. Having said that I can also see the need to move quickly, so as to keep the groups of pilgrims together around their pastors and to get the structures of the Ordinariate in place and operating in a reasonable timeframe.

It's also true to say that most members of the first Ordinariate groups will need little grounding in Catholic theology - the formation will be more around cultural and pastoral differences than theological ones. My own RCIA was far more a pastoral and personal journey than an educational one.

The plan seems a reasonable compromise, given all the considerations. It's very nice to see the RC church is planning to put some financial resources into the Ordinariate as well.

Most liberals in the CofE (and indeed ECUSA et al) can't wait to see the back of the trads, so the timeline should please them, except of course that the welcome being afforded by Rome might cause some souring of the wine in liberal sacristies.

This should make for a very happy 2011 for all concerned, both Anglican and RC, traditional and liberal.

Posted by Clive at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 7:06pm GMT

Couldn't agree more with Martin and I hope the CDF are vigilant. A tiny ordinariate, with a disproportionate number of clergy..thats my prediction.

Apparently the 100 souls of the TAC in the UK...23 are clerics wanting to join the ordinariate!

Posted by robert ian williams at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 9:40pm GMT

You are quite right Martin if the circs surrounding joining the RcChurch were 'ordinary'! But people are joining an extraordinoriate, and frankly, to take this step, the average lay person is already likely to be initiated into rather more orthodox ways than some visitors to this blog! Although, not of course, into Catholic 'culture'. However, isn't Catholic culture itself due to change and become rather more mission orientated now there will be allies in full communion, possessed with the gift of Anglican Patrimony?

Posted by Neil at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 11:01pm GMT

"This should make for a very happy 2011 for all concerned, both Anglican and RC, traditional and liberal.

- Posted by: Clive on Friday -

My sadness, Clive, is that there will stil be some quasi-Anglicans - now in the Roman Church - who really believe that women are in a separate category from men in God's mind, despite sharing the same 'Image and Likeness of God' as men.
I am mindful of that great Apostle Paul's understanding on this important matter:
"IN CHRIST there is neither male nor female!"

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 3:04am GMT

These persons are not in the main mission minded.. they come from elderly declining social clubs. Where there are people, like some of the inner city parishes they have been kept going by immigrants. However in all fairness this can be true of the Catholic Church in England and Wales as well.

Anglican patrimony indeed... in reality it is a group of persons who have spent the last 150 years pretending to be Roman Catholics and appropriating Roman Catholic ideas and liturgy.

The real Anglican patrimony lies with those who follow the Protestant theology of Cranmer.

They don't want to be under our Bishops and yet the latter are giving them £250,000!Granted that is a drop in the ocean, but mark my words the Ordinariate will be very small indeed . In America the Anglican Use is largely propped up by cradle Catholics.

Posted by Robert In Williams at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 7:24am GMT

Ron, stop erecting straw men.

The Catholic church teaches the equality of men and women before God..they just have separate callings. Lets not side track this thread.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 8:23am GMT

Fr Ron, if they really do believe that women are inferior to men, then they have no business joining the RC Church which upholds the fundamental equality and dignity of all. Whether someone can be a priest or not is not a question of human dignity (or a kind of human right) - if it was then we would be advocating a bizarre kind of clericalism. There are many men who cannot be priests in the RC Church for a variety of reasons.

Posted by William at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 11:31am GMT

As someone who has stumbled across this blog I would like to say how mean and sub-christian some of the comments about the Ordinariate have been. Fr Ron Smith in particular seems to delight in being snide. If this is what 'Thinking Anglicans' are like then count me out.

Posted by Steven Hawkins at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 6:48pm GMT

"Where there are people, like some of the inner city parishes they have been kept going by immigrants."

And your point is??? If a parish is welcoming and dynamic, has a true sense of mission, and, reflecting its local population, has within it people who originate from other lands, what is the problem? And since when did Anglican Patrimony equal English??

"They don't want to be under our Bishops and yet the latter are giving them £250,000!"

At the request of the Holy Father himself, who has urged them to be generous. Thankfully, neither the bishops nor the Holy Father felt it necessary to ask your permission??

Posted by David Malloch at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 7:53pm GMT

William, I do not quite get your drift here. Are you still advocating the cause of patriarchalism -something that many Christians have abandoned long ago. Remember that, if a priest's first task is to celebrate the presence of Christ on the altar, Blessed Mary first celebrated the Presence of Christ in her womb - a mere woman!

She's probably blushing even now to realise that the majority of her advocates as Queen of Heaven in the Roman Church, would still not dignify her part in the first 'Showing of Christ' at the Incarnation - as an action surely as significant as 'Showing Him Forth' at the altar - priestly!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 8:33pm GMT

I had hoped that my first sentence made clear that I was not advocating patriarchalism. I believe in the dignity and equality of men and woman. I do not believe there is any conflict here with my Catholicism, which inspires me to treat others as I would desire to be treated myself.

Posted by William at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 10:19pm GMT

Note this comment by William "There are many men who cannot be priests in the RC Church for a variety of reasons." Accurate with regard to men. However, women cannot be priests for only one reason--they are women.

"Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination. The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry." --Catechism of the Catholic Church.Chapter III Article 6 (VI) # 1577. [Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (English) edition.p. 336]

Ordination is not a right in any church, but denial of ordination to women simply because they are not men is indeed an egregious breach of gender equality--claims to the contrary by a patriarchal hierarchy not withstanding. And as a bonus point for TA readers, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is notorious for its misuse of Scripture.

Posted by Rod Gillis at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 11:13pm GMT

"a group of persons who have spent the last 150 years pretending to be Roman Catholics"

Well then, that pretense certainly seems to be *good for one's health*: I might have to reconsider it! ;-p

But seriously:

"The real Anglican patrimony lies with those who follow the Protestant theology of Cranmer."

That's part of it . . . but equally is the Catholicism of Laud, and later Pusey. Can you not understand that the "Via Media" draws from the best of BOTH ways, RIW?

"The Catholic church teaches the equality of men and women before God..they just have separate callings."

"Separate callings" . . . as DICTATED BY MEN! (Equality FAIL) Spare me your Crocodile Tears of Victimization, Robert Ian. >:-/

Posted by JCF at Sunday, 21 November 2010 at 12:22am GMT

Sorry JCF, but seventeenth century Churchmen did not believe in the intercession of saionts, prayers for the dead. Anglo-Catholicism is not really in continuity with it.

Posted by robert Ian williams at Monday, 22 November 2010 at 8:33pm GMT
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.