Comments: Covenant - what Archbishop Gomez said in 2008

++Gomez pounded that drum at Albany's 2010 diocesan convention, joining +Love and the ABC (recorded) in an effective media blitz. With so many shepherds in play, it's no wonder the sheep fell in line and endorsed the covenant.

Robert Dodd

Posted by Robert Dodd at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 4:27pm GMT

There can't really be any doubt that neither liberal churches nor extreme conservative churches are very fond of the Covenant and that they will probably not sign it.
So the Communion will be split in any case.

For me, the only question is where the CoE will find itself afterwards.

Posted by Erika Baker at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 5:16pm GMT

Bishop Gomez is the retired archbishop of the West Indies. However the archbishop emeritus remains on, ¨as needed¨, as chairperson for The Anglican Communion Covenant Design Group.

Good, we badly ¨need¨ some redesigning and the removal/editing rooting out of ill-intentioned ¨cleansing instruments¨ in the 4th section of that same covenant. A self-eliminating clause, at least if we take Bishop Gomez at his word(s), that would outcast ¨bad¨ Anglican ¨family¨ members and make room for ¨good¨ and more virtueous Anglican family in North America/beyond.

Bishop Drexel Gomez knows who´s good and whó´s bad already and claims there is a urgently needed ¨sorting out¨ process after the Covenant is signed in order to restore Anglicanism to it´s proper place in religious history.

Clearly +Gomez also must believe all is well(?)in our Jamaican/West Indies ¨Anglican Family where the LGBTI Hate Crimes are the most bloody/numerous in the Western Hemisphere. LGBTI Anglicans live in the West Indies and Jamaica with insecurity and danger of being demonized both at Church and in their everyday lives.

FACT: ALL of the dioceses in the Province of the West Indies persecute LGBTI citizens with draconian old discrimination laws--the ONLY countries that continue to do so in the Western Hemisphere are the ¨good¨ Anglican West Indies.

I think the Anglican Covenant, Section 4, reflects an attempt to go forward with backward and harmful Anglican Thinking/Beliving which will greatly impact the well-being of our sisters and brothers at The Body of Christ everywhere. Anglican provinces where LGBTI are demonized and forbidden to OPENLY serve at all levels of Churchlife will be further tormented.

The Anglican Covenant intends to harm members of our collective ¨Anglican Family¨ and taint our ongoing good-health and well-being with hateful ¨social laws¨ at Church. Our spiritual, emotional and physical well-being ought not be risked. There are ought not be any potential for ACCEPTABLE levels of abuse against LGBTI Christians or Heterosexual Women anywhere within the Anglican Communion family.

No Anglican Communion Covenant--Comprehensive Unity is our hope--the abuse of the marginalized must stop.

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 6:49pm GMT

Erika: Perhaps, I believe the Communion has already split. The same thing has happened in the Roman Catholic Communion. It too, has split. Perhaps new foundations are being built in both communions. I have no doubt "The Covenant" is a truly bad idea. It is time for those who believe that The Covenant is a good thing, to simply move on. They do not seem to want to do this. They seem to want "their cake and to eat it as well." Thus, two models of Church are unfolding. This is nothing new. This has happened time and again. It is best to wish the pro-Covenant people well. It is now time for the "No Covenant" people to continue their journey for full, inclusive participation for women and glbt people in all areas of ordained ministry in The Church of England.

Posted by Chris Smith at Friday, 19 November 2010 at 9:40pm GMT

I agree that there is already a split but so far, it has been possible for individual provinces to move from one section the other other, or even to be in one camp on some issues and not on others.

As soon as the Covenant is signed whatever is the status quo will be frozen.
So if the CoE signs it, it will continue to have women's ordination but it will never move to lgbt inclusion.
All options of a gradual organic change of policy will be closed.

Without the Covenant, the CoE still has choices, including the choice to remain conservative on lgbt issues.
After it has signed the Covenant is has none.

That's why I said that it would be interesting to see which side of the Covenant the CoE finds itself

Posted by Erika Baker at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 11:07am GMT

Erika: Thank you for making these points. Well taken and I salute you for the way you spelled it out. I agree with every word you wrote. It would be a very sad day for the C of E if lgbt people do not receive FULL inclusion. Again, thank you. I grow because of insightful comments such as yours.

Posted by Chris Smith at Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 8:28pm GMT

Bishop Gomez, with his impoverished notion of what homosexuality is really all about, should have been retired and put out to grass - and not give any further responsibility for The Covenant.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 21 November 2010 at 5:32am GMT

I suspect Abp Drexel's dislike of TEC is also fed by the fact the Province of the West Indies has lost some of its clergy to it over the years.

Posted by Perry Butler at Monday, 22 November 2010 at 9:53am GMT
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