Comments: Seeking to enshrine exclusion

Absolutely bang-on. Wonderful writing. Giles needs to become the next ABC.

Posted by evensongjunkie at Friday, 3 June 2011 at 10:41pm BST

Good on you, Giles! I'm glad we have you at Saint Paul's - as an advocate of the gospel inclusivity of ALL people in the Church. I guess you may never become the next Archbsihop of Canterbury, but hey, the age of miracles may not yet have departed! Greetings from Aotearoa/New Zealand!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 4 June 2011 at 2:13am BST

Well done.

Peace. At what price.

When there is "peace" in the church by excluding and silency the uncomfortable, then that is not peace. It is sociopaths gloating that they have their victims under control.

According to the Judaic oral tradition, Sodom and Gomorrah were brought down because a mother and son were refused justice in the public square. King David warned of not harming the fatherless lest they rouse God and face God's wrath.

Christianity that is synonomous with misogyony, pedophilia, homophobia and repression is not "peaceful". They claim there is peace, when really their peace is the silencing of victims.

They say that Jesus makes them above reproach, and then proceed to whitewash and brainwash that their conduct is acceptable and their sins forgiven. They complain of persecution and state that anyone that rebukes them is evil.

Better to have a Christianity that is free of reproach, because it is free of reproach, not because it has sought to make itself "above the law". Better to have a Christianity that is free of persecution, because there is no persecution by anyone, including Christians.

There are souls who complain of persecution but have no problem in persecuting. There are souls who claim to be above reproach, when really they are silencing the voices of conscience, not because they are above reproach.

Posted by Cheryl Va. at Saturday, 4 June 2011 at 10:18am BST

This is both perceptive and prophetic. Woe to the church if the whole Gospel is not preached and lived to the full.
The scandal of exclusion games being played by some CofE hierarchs needs denouncing and disowning.
As these guys are state appointees, shouldn't someone in government be having a quiet word with them about what such discrimination means? Are no legal sanctions applicable?

Posted by Keith KImber at Saturday, 4 June 2011 at 12:36pm BST

'To stop such people being ordained because a group doesn't like the fact that some people will always be homosexual would be as unjust as not having made John Sentamu the Archbishop of York because there was a theological argument going round for a white man'. - Mark Oakley.

Absolutely right. Some people don't like black priests (or bishops) - Get over it.

Posted by Richard Ashby at Saturday, 4 June 2011 at 6:09pm BST

Thank you Giles. Your article is brave , brilliant and sadly true. How do we stop this sinful, mad,destructive leadership of our Archbishops?

God , she is weeping

Posted by Jean Mary Mayland at Saturday, 4 June 2011 at 9:09pm BST

Surely you have to have gay marriage approved by the General Synod, before you can discuss gay partnered bishops? If that is not the case how could you deny the office to a heterosexual male in a long term non married relationship?

Posted by Robert ian williams at Sunday, 5 June 2011 at 8:46am BST

Well, Canon Fraser has once again nailed pretty transparent double-talk. Once people begin to talk about homosexuality as a problem, or something nasty and unsafe, they are into a sticky tangle which inevitably results in documents of this kind. A creative response is required.

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Sunday, 5 June 2011 at 11:15pm BST

I agree with Robert.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Monday, 6 June 2011 at 9:55am BST

Marriage is a legal status available to heterosexuals. A Civil Partnership is a legal status available to homosexuals. The sacrament of Matrimony is only available to heterosexuals. - But Mr. R.I. Williams is logical in his challenge. ONLY those partnered homosexuals who have entered into a Civil Partnership should be eligible for preferment. They have taken the option available to them of seeking to make their relationship public & permanent. I believe that this is the situation that applies in the Anglican Church in Canada.

Posted by commentator at Monday, 6 June 2011 at 10:14am BST

Surely not gay bishops / nor priests! Surely they whittled them out - before they got ordained! Honestly - if you rid the CofE of gay clergy it would implode today! Get real with this! The old queen mum - I hear would only employ gays! Loyal sympathetic ... 100+ other adjectives... is it not about time the CofE realised the wealth it has and invested in it!!! It might also enfranchise all those gay bottoms on pews - before they get up and leave!

Posted by Chris. B at Monday, 6 June 2011 at 10:16pm BST

The Church can make marriage available, even if the state does not wish to register it.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Monday, 6 June 2011 at 10:20pm BST

Too bad the politically expedient view is so short term and does not take into account the judgement of generations a thousand years in the future

Posted by ettu at Wednesday, 8 June 2011 at 9:29pm BST
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