Comments: opinion

I dont think that is is necessary to comment on the claptrap coming from the Liverpool Frontline church, it is much as you might expect. What irritates me is the use of the use of the words 'passed away' when saying that someone has died. There may just be some justification when dealing with the bereaved, though it doesn't changed the facts, but its use in a newspaper article is mealy mouthed and such vapid sensitivity is inappropriate in a factual report.

Posted by Richard Ashby at Saturday, 23 July 2011 at 5:48pm BST

"In parts of the church, Pilate came to be canonized as a Christian saint. A saint? Yes, and the reason is clear. The more innocent Pilate is, the more guilty the other enemies are -- the Jews." -- Bart D Ehrman

With no apologies, game, set, match.
From my limited reading about the historical, non-Gospel Pontius Pilate, he was a tyrant, and completely ruthless. So long as he kept Judea pacified, and the taxes flowed upward, his superiors were happy. But, towards the end of his life, Pilate brutally suppressed a revolt, and even his Roman superiors were appalled -- and that's quite a feat. They summoned him back to Rome, he boarded a ship -- and disappeared. Perhaps the ship foundered and sank somewhere. But perhaps he shared some of his wealth with the crew, and simply landed somewhere and assumed a new identity.
In my opinion, if the Jewish authorities had brought to Pilate's attention -- right before Passover -- a man of the lower classes from backward Galilee who was stirring up the masses, was disrupting commerce, was making tax collectors shirk their duties, and (by misusing his words) was rejecting Rome's power, Pilate would have ordered the man crucified without a moment's hesitation. Gone!
Pilate crucified thousands of people. He probably had people crucified before he even ate breakfast. So why this reported angst in the Gospels, why this washing of hands?
One reason is what Mr. Ehrman stated above. Christianity and Judaism had a very nasty divorce, with bad feelings on both sides.
Second, if you're trying to convert Romans, it's hard to do so if you say "Well a Roman governor executed the Son of God, but He was resurrected, so we forgive you." Much easier to play down Pilate's role, show him to be interested in justice, show him to have given in to the blood-thirsty crowd, composed of Jews.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Saturday, 23 July 2011 at 5:58pm BST

From "Frontline" Fact Sheet:

"Homosexual relationships are characterised by emotional dependency. An all consuming, unhealthy attachment is made with the other person. The relationship is not based on love but on finding security in another person"

Good thing *heterosexual* relationships are NEVER like this, huh? {sarcasm/Off}

Hateful BS. Anathema!

Posted by JCF at Saturday, 23 July 2011 at 9:14pm BST

David Morris noted that one of the reasons for continuing the CoE influence in UK parliament is that "- They don't just contribute to religious matters."

Don't want discrimination in UK parliament anymore than any other country that discriminates or persecutes minorities or females. Want to end persecution, not just against women, or GLBTs. Persecution and discrimination in and of itself is bad, regardless of whether it is done by Satanists, Christians, Muslims or other.

Misuse of power by any church representative is bad, don't throw the bogey man threat of how bad discrimination is in some countries to absolve yourself of discrimination within your own country or religion. Fix it. Across all countries and religions. As and when the opportunities arise.

Posted by Cheryl Va. at Monday, 25 July 2011 at 10:27am BST

I have just ordered a copy of Ehrman's "Apocryphal Gospels," since my old Schneemelcher English-only set seems somewhat out of date, and I assume from the Oxford U.P.'s standards that Ehrman is a first-rate editor of these manuscripts.

That said, I find it a little discouraging that he continues to engage in these carnival-barker-level antics. I am neither a church professional nor an academic, but I picked up most of what he breathlessly tries to astound us with about 35 years ago in an undergraduate course at a church-sponsored college. It's a little depressing that one who is so obviously an outstanding textual scholar has so little practical judgment that he imagines that the Christian faith will be set reeling by a few manuscript variations and some entertainingly-bizarre extra-canonical stories.

Posted by rick allen at Monday, 25 July 2011 at 11:52pm BST
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