Comments: LGBTAC: 'Embrace Civil Partnerships' - Bishops told

Of course the foundation for this was laid in the 1930 Anglican decision to accept contraception. Once you divorce the uniative from the procreative, this is where it leads you. However contemporary conservative Anglicans want contraception but not the thought through theology.

Posted by Robert Ian williams at Saturday, 4 February 2012 at 8:33am GMT

A very commendable effort on the part of LGBTAC. But, will the Bishops listen this time?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 4 February 2012 at 6:19pm GMT

RIW, you DO realize that Rome's "unitive and procreative" meme was invented some decades after the Anglican decision to permit birth control?

Like the Gentiles & Pagans around them, the Judeo-Christian tradition has been encumbered with patriarchy and fertility cult-ishness.

In 2012 however, followers of Jesus, led into all Truth by the Holy Spirit, are outgrowing this dubious legacy. Maranatha! :-)

Posted by JCF at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 6:42am GMT

Dear Robert Ian Williams. Where, in your experience has there ever been a conception that has not been the product of what you are pleased to call - 'The Uniative from the procreative. That's actually how conception works - be the design of the Creator.

However, there is also a case for the unity of persons that does not result in pregnancy - even if intended. Simple biological fact. Nothing particularly 'spiritual' here.

You really do need to emerge from the Dark Ages!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 8:26am GMT

"Of course the foundation for this was laid in the 1930 Anglican decision to accept contraception. Once you divorce the uniative from the procreative, this is where it leads you." Robert Ian Williams

I am reminded of a line spoken by the character Rachel in the popular sit-com 'Friends':

"No uterus - no opinion"

Posted by Laurence C. at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 10:39am GMT

So, riw, Let is imagine a widow past child-bearing age, proposing to marry an elderly widower. Would their "union" be a marriage or not? Would the Roman Catholic church turn such people away? Is it unitive, even though it can't be intended to be, nor can actually be, procreative?

If the answer to the questions is yes, no,and yes - then your theology is holed beneath the waterline.

Posted by JeremyP at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 1:57pm GMT

One might also make the point that even in the most catholic of countries of Europe, such as Spain and Italy, the number of births has sharply declined, barely to replacement level, clearly as a result of the vast numbers ignoring the Pope's strictures on birth control. What ever your theology might be the people have put two fingers up to it.

Posted by Richard Ashby at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 6:39pm GMT

Unless one things that menopause is a human invention, it would rather appear that as a part of the created order procreation and union are separate phenomena which overlap for part of a fertile couple's life together. For infertile couples this overlap never exists. Yet the chruch has never taught that infertile couples were forbidden marriage. As noted above, this idea that the two concepts are inseparable is a quite modern, or even post-modern, invention. Not that I'm against modern things, but this is hardly "catholic" teaching in an historic sense.

Posted by Tobias Haller at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 8:23pm GMT

@Robert Ian Williams

"Of course the foundation for this was laid in the 1930 Anglican decision to accept contraception. Once you divorce the uniative from the procreative, this is where it leads you."

Well, goodness, yes. Of course it does. Your problem is?

Posted by Gerry Lynch at Sunday, 5 February 2012 at 10:04pm GMT
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