more thinly veiled gay bashing ?
These priveleged wailing tories are a disgrace.
I want to distance myself from their 'complaints' after 60+ years as a Christian- do these people even participate in any form of Christianity ?
I have only ever had my freedom removed as a gay person and they hope to revert to 'the good old days' asap.
You wouldnt find a Jesus signing up to this BS.
oh please ! - this stuff doesnt even need decoding:
'Religious illiteracy has led to legal restrictions on the way that faith can be expressed. Recent changes have
compelled Christians to provide services that they had never previously offered and which may be contrary to their beliefs.'
We all know it means services to lgbt people.
These groups though mealy-mouthed have vile intentions.
They are mealy-mouthed as a political ploy.
As for religiously illiterate ! ...
Ah, they wish to use more insulting language more often ! Now that's what I call religious literacy !
• The 1986 Public Order Act, and specifically Section 5, places the bar too low through its prohibition on
• The policing of the Public Order Act and other legislation demonstrates a lack of understanding of what
is a legitimate expression of Christian belief.
• Government departments handle religious belief in a complex and confused manner and lack
I almost pity this pathetic small and unrepresentative group as they seek to bolster their egos and fight for all that they have lost - their world view with the right to patronise and dominate others.
Well they can still patronise for England - 'religious illiteracy'? Who do they think they be !
The BBC report says the equality law should "cover faith". Of course it already does - religion and belief are one of the protected characteristics and there are extensive religious exemptions in the legislations to cater for those whose faith require discrimination.
As to the report - Ekklesia says it all really. I think the report was probably written by feeding various Lawyers Christian Fellowship and Christian Institute press releases into a computer and pressing a button - out comes the report.
People should look at the narrow, self selected membership of the "committee" before reading the "report".
As regards the issue of trumping which they get very excited about - the only way such people are happy is if their rights always trump other people's.
This report, "Clearing the Ground," can only further damage religious groups in England, especially those who call themselves "Christian". The authors of this report seem to have learned nothing from the history of institutional Christianity, which, though notable for many and profound works of charity, is also characterized by egregious persecution against scientists and humanists, and appalling violence against those with whom they disagree, especially against women, children and LGBT persons and families.
These groups apply the name "Christian" to themselves, thereby smearing the name of other Christians and Churches who do not agree with them. In the United States, this same movement has produced a mass exodus of young adults from evangelical communities because they cannot stomach their communities' vitriolic attacks of LGBT persons and their attempts to restore official prejudice against sexual minority persons and, most recently, against women and our rights to control our bodies.
Don't imagine that this regressive movement cannot gain a voice in the UK. Twenty years ago, I would never have imagined that the 2012 presidential campaign in the US would be about the right to access to contraceptives as part of a woman's health insurance. That said, you in the UK are in a much better position to bring sanity to the argument about equality. Discriminate all you want in your Church but not in the provision of licensed public services nor as a recipient of state funds to provide public services. The idea that it is part of Christian witness to deny service to a person because you regard them as a sinner is appalling. And, to these so-called Christian groups, for the love of God, please stop dragging the Name of Jesus through the mud. Consider meditating on Matthew chapter 25 as your guide for providing care for others.
At the core of Jesus' message to all who would listen is, "Be profoundly changed from within (repent) for the reign of God is so close to you that you can touch it." When will these so-called Christian groups and Churches repent of their violence and violence-provoking rehetoric against LGBT persons? We are in the holy season of Lent. Where are their public declarations of repentance? Where are their demonstrations agianst violent attacks on LGBT persons and, especially, our children? Many of these groups have strong relationships with conservative Christianity in Africa. Where are their unequivocal public statements against the further criminalizing of LGBT persons in these countries? Sometimes, silence speaks the loudest.
Not a good day for spiritual religion.
And yet how could true spiritual religion ever be finished off ? It's like saying the golden rule, the sermon on the mount or love between people could be murdered in the people's breasts.
They'll have Jesus turning in his grave Kirsty -- because, for them he hasn't risen yet! They've made sure that wopping stone has blocked his exit! Just like tory policies are endangering the well being of low income families, elders, ill people, disabled people .......blocking their exit from poverty, illness and tory-libdem broken promises
I find it hard to understand how a nation with an established Christian church can be said to need special protections for Christians.
This is just one more way of the conservative wing of the Church of England trying to establish its authority as Establishment Church. This is surely no longer feasible in the context of the 'freedom of religion' ethos of the multi-cultural society of the united Kingdom - where even the Monarch is now known, at least colloquially, as the 'Defender of Faiths' - not just of the C.of E.
For Lord Carey and his friends to assert the pre-eminence of his sola-Scriptura point of view as the fulcrum of the English legal system, is hardly consistent with the role and function of civil government. The united Kingdom is not a theocracy - like Iran - nor should the Church of England behave as though it part of a theocratic state.
'Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment to his lifespan?' (Matt. 6:27)
Certain qualities, such as lifespan, are largely determined by genetics and, regardless of our best efforts, at the mercy of divine providence. Such characteristics should not be a cause of fear and guilt. Beyond these demonstrably pre-determined traits, the gospel challenges every aspect of human behaviour, bar none, with the call for change. All other limits on marital affinity are applied without exemption. There is no room for special pleading.
No aspect of human personality, however intractable, is off limits. The true prophet Jeremiah showed remarkable insight into these aspects of human behaviour: 'Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.' (Jer. 13:23). Clearly, God doesn't assume that instinctive behaviour is morally neutral.
It is the false prophet who cordons off specific aspects of human personality, as if they were exempt from divine censure and only to treat the church's mere challenge to them as a sin in itself. Especially when St. Paul charges the church with a duty to: 'Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.' (Eph. 5:11).
Mr. Shepherd, indeed, but it does seem sad that so few of the traditionalists have been supportive of efforts to expose the fruitless deeds of homophobia and other acts of darkness.
There have been recent studies in neuroscience and genetics showing that a tendency toward conservative views about social order might be congenitally predisposed. Nonetheless, I appreciate your reminder that those who are against the recognition of the legitimate partnerships of same sex couples cannot plead that they were born with a bend toward bigotry. We need to encourage them to leave the errors of the 13th century and recognize the full humanness of gays and lesbians. We need to go further and call on those who labor for the fruitless deeds of darkness to repent and to actually acknowledge that same sex marriages are a good thing. It will take many years of education and the training of tolerance in schools and in churches and in the popular media, but we will get there.
Homophobia and the denial of the love and value of same gender marriages is a real moral failing, even if it is based in a genetic predisposition, but we progress toward that day when even that evil will be overcome.
That would all make sense if those studies to which you refer (and those claiming gay genetic/psychological determinism) produced established scientific facts, rather than promising lines of enquiry.
If there is no variation to the polarised view that the mere challenge towards any behaviour constitutes a phobia of it, I guess that, in thrall as I am to other Levitical pronouncements, I'm also incestophobic (not thereby implying a 'slippery slope' connection). I also break out into a terrible rash at the repeated mention of the all-too-clever 'shellfish and mixed fibres' argument (Howbeit, therein lies a cure for my insomnia!)
Forget 'the errors of the 13th century', let's target the real culprits, those presumptious patriarchs and rabble-rousing rabbis who invested their prejudices with divine authority long before, penning papyrus as they did with 'tabloid' taboos.
You might want to jettison all scripture as outmoded for good, rather than take an X-acto knife to the bits you don't like.
David, I wonder if you are really aware that Jesus condensed 'all the Law and the Prophets' into the New Commandment - "that you love one another as I have loved you" - This is my commandment! Jesus did not cling to shibboleths, as you appear to be doing.
It's a pity that you only target as shibboleths those ideas that challenge your 'progessive' world-view, Especially since state-enforced *multi-culturalism* (that you espouse in an earlier post) has failed so spectacularly in Britain.
Have you, David, personally experienced the failure?
Our failure's only remedy:
'It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.' (1 Tim. 1:15)
'The servant therefore fell down, and worshiped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' (Matt.18:26)
'Not the labours of my hands,
Could fulfil thy laws demands,
Could my tears forever flow,
Or my zeal no respite know,
All for sin could not atone,
Thou must save,
And Thou alone!'
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