Comments: More about GAFCON and AMiE

>> Asked if any Primate, such as the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the US, would be eligible to stand as chairman, Dr Wabukala said that the position should be open to “those who subscribe to what the Anglican Communion stands for”.

Sorry but from a Canadian point of view, the Anglican Communion seems to stand for hands open for money from North America but telling them to shut up otherwise.

Posted by Randal Oulton at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 10:42am BST

Well now we know..the Anglican Communion is now a confessional body based on the Jerusalem Declaration. Anyone told the C of E?

Posted by Perry Butler at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 11:28am BST

'that the intention of the FCA is not to break with the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Anglican Communion'

Too late for that. They HAVE already broken with Canterbury and therefore, with the Anglican Communion.


Posted by Laurence Roberts at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 1:33pm BST

I am glad that Colin Coward has revealed how the St Mark's parish and buildings and name, is being used without the knowledge of the congregation; and I assume without the permission of the PCC.

I see how FCA works on the ground as well as in the stratosphere.

A very arrogant approach.

David Page was a marvellous minister and person.


Posted by Laurence Roberts at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 1:36pm BST

Anybody hear of Minns lately? He's the London office director, no?

Posted by John B. Chilton at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 2:05pm BST

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that a house (or houses) built on a foundation of disciplining by exclusion the Anglican Church of Canada and the Episcopal Church in the US is bound to be weak?

As Rowan made encouraging noises to ACNA, did he not foresee that the chickens would come home to roost in England?

Posted by Grandmère Mimi at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 6:58pm BST

'St Mark’s is a congregation which includes a number of lesbian and gay people, including couples in civil partnerships. Paul Perkin is fully aware of their presence. They worship there because at the grass roots, they experience St Mark’s congregation as being open and welcoming.'

Jolly good. This is very widespread. So often 'spokespersons' speak only, or largely, for themselves.

Posted by John at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 7:07pm BST

Rather disingenuous when they say that the chairman of the Primates' Meeting is not going to be "some sort of super-leader of the Anglican Communion". Don't they want the Primates to be the only body that matters, to wield disciplinary power, to define doctrine, etc.?

As to the choice of venue, it provides a very concrete example of just how out of step this so-called leadership is with the People of God.

Posted by Jim Pratt at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 7:41pm BST

"Spokespeople for Lambeth Palace and the Anglican Communion Office both declined to comment on the idea suggested by the two Primates."
Dr Peter Jensen is not a Primate TBTG.
Dr Phillip Aspinall, Archbishop of Brisbane is Primate of Australia and is far more worthy of the post.

Posted by Brian Ralph at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 8:20pm BST

Asked if any Primate, such as the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the US, would be eligible to stand as chairman, Dr Wabukala said that the position should be open to “those who subscribe to what the Anglican Communion stands for."

Which of course only FCA can discern.

Posted by Jeremy at Friday, 27 April 2012 at 8:33pm BST

Yeah ... I can see a major blowup coming if the GAFCON Primates try to take over the Primates Meeting and force everyone to hold to their line. I wouldn't even care to bet in their favor on their ability to get Canterbury to surrender the prerogative of calling the meeting.

Posted by Jonathan at Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 4:58am BST

Such hubris from Messrs. Nazir-Ali and Jensen would be risible, if not for their clear intention to undermine the Unity in Diversity ethos of the traditional Anglican Communion.

Perhaps these so-called 'confessing anglicans' ought be given their come-uppance speedily, before they further infiltrate into the very heart-land of the Church of England.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 7:12am BST

So was this a Gafcon conference, as some official pronouncements would indicate, or a "FCA" one (seems we've shed an "O" along the line, for some reason - penny dropped?) as others state? And is there a difference?

Posted by Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer at Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 12:33pm BST

"I can see a major blowup coming if the GAFCON Primates try to take over the Primates Meeting...."

Jonathan that's precisely what happened at Dar es Salaam. It signified the end of the "rule by Primatial Communique" period. It was very short-lived.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Saturday, 28 April 2012 at 5:05pm BST

Lapin., you are correct in associating FoCA with Gafcon. They are two sides of the same coin with very little currency in the traditional world of Anglicanism as has been identified under the 3-legged stool of S., T., and Reason. It was probably more convenient for their recent clan meeting to call it under the FCA banner - this seeming to be more domesticated than the Gafcon association.

Ex-Bishop Minns is, indeed, at the head of the new corporate quasi-Anglican sodality in the U.K. The Anglican Mission in England (AMiE), with clergy ordained by Archbishop Wakabula of Kenya, seems well-positioned to mount a Gafcon/FCA bid for control of the Communion from the Home Counties. And now that former Bishop Venables isd in the U.K., with his recent message to the Church of Ireland, there may be much more overt activity by the undercover agents of reform in the U.K. that may have been realised by H.O.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 29 April 2012 at 10:43am BST

Reading this only served to deepen my growing conviction that perhaps it's now time to let the Anglican Communion, a piece of Victorian imperialism anyway, go quietly to its rest. The context within which provinces have to operate has changed but some are rather less willing to move with the times than others. I'm not saying that the churches of the Global South should necessarily take on board English, Canadian or North American ideas. However they could at least be prepared to "live and let live."

Posted by Adrian at Sunday, 29 April 2012 at 7:59pm BST

Perhaps some of these Global South Churches should consider ecumenism on their own patch. After all that is what Lambeth 1948 envisaged..and we have the United Churches of South and North India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, all of whom are part of the Anglican Communion and also have relationships elsewhere...relationships of course which prevent them from signing the Covenant let alone the even more confessional Jerusalem Declaration. It surely makes more sense for the health of ,say, Tanzanian Christianity,for Tanzanian Anglicans to be in full communion with Tanzanian Methodists and Lutherans ( for example) than to be overly fussed as to whether they are in communion with, say, Polynesian Anglicans... a looser "Wider Episcopal Fellowship" (didn't it once exist?) would be quite adequate.

Posted by Perry Butler at Monday, 30 April 2012 at 11:14am BST

What a load of rubbish that St Mark's did not know about hosting GAFCON.

It could not happen without the support of St Mark's.

St Mark's may have a few practising homosexual members of the congregation.

That is v different to saying the PCC/leadership did not approve of the GAFCON conference.

This is a thread of your own spinning.
No more.

Posted by JJ at Monday, 30 April 2012 at 7:45pm BST

What Perry Butler said.

Posted by LaurenceR at Monday, 30 April 2012 at 8:53pm BST
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