Comments: Church of Ireland synod to discuss sexuality resolutions

One can only respect the Irish Diocese which has refused to outlaw a loving relationship on the part of one of its clergy - with a same-sex partner. When is the Church of Ireland going to emerge from the chrysalis of the past - where sex was confined to baby-making? I suggest a good look at the Wisdom of the Song of Songs, where God delights in loving relationships between his human children.

"Where Charity and Love are - there is God".

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 10:23am BST

I think many will find the first two motions mutually exclusive.

Thus, in the second motion:

"[T]he Church of Ireland affirms a continuing commitment to love our neighbour, and opposition to all unbiblical and uncharitable actions and attitudes in respect of human sexuality from whatever perspective, including bigotry, hurtful words or actions".

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't many LBGTQ people, and LBGTQ christians in the Church of Ireland in particular, find the words and actions of the first motion hurtful and probably bigotted?!

Posted by Alastair Newman at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 11:06am BST

On the face of it, the motions brought to this week's General Synod of the Church of Ireland change nothing. They simply restate the Church's current position on matters of sexual morality.

However, they risk bringing the Church into ridicule; and they have caused great hurt to many faithful Church of Ireland people.

The public restatement of a position that has been observed in the breach for decades – and the Archbishop of Dublin and the Bishop of Down and Dromore cannot be unaware of this – simply underlines the gulf between a Church that is held to ransom by its conservatives and the people it would serve. Although heterosexuals are not the motions' targets, they are no less bound by their absurdity; for no one will believe Archbishop Michael or Bishop Harold if either claims never knowingly to have officiated at the marriage of a co-habiting straight couple.

The hurt – and indeed fear – the motions have caused are more serious. Nine years ago, the Church of Ireland committed to engaging in a 'listening process' on the issue of homosexuality. That process never happened. The civil partnership of the Dean of Leighlin last year was seized by the cynical and the bigoted as an opportunity to posture. The resulting Cavan conference – which purported to start a listening process that in truth is still impossible given the understandable insecurity of many gays and lesbians in the Church – engendered hope among some. But the motions now before the synod place limitations on the outcome of what therefore cannot be a process, for all that the motions pay lip service to encouraging it.

Meanwhile, many of us - gay and straight - are perplexed and fearful for our future in the Church we love. And we join our voices with the psalmist in crying, 'How long, O Lord, how long?'

Posted by Rupert Moreton at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 11:27am BST

Quite a brilliant article by Houston McKelvey, former Dean of Belfast, at his Church News Ireland blog. http://www.churchnewsireland.org/news/irish-uk-news/general-synod-sketchbook-10th-may/

Needless to say, I am one of the open letter signatories.

Posted by Gerry Lynch at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 11:56am BST

Posted on the new thread as well: The motion has been withdrawn. Canon Nigel Dunne raised a point of order that it clashed with the Order Two marriage service in BCP 2004 and therefore sufficient doubt was raised that it was a change in doctrine, so the motions were withdrawn. All very Anglican.

Perhaps now we can find a way of keeping us all together that doesn't involve belting LGBT people over the head with a crozier, or the rest of us caving in to the most strident voices who not even reflect the breadth of opinion within Northern Evangelicalism.

I am very proud to be a member of the bloody old Church of Ireland this evening.

Posted by Gerry Lynch at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 5:35pm BST

Motion 8A was ruled out of order and Motions 8B & 8C were then withdrawn by the bishops.

Posted by Michael Carchrie Campbell at Thursday, 10 May 2012 at 5:46pm BST

I'm with you, Gerry. The fact that the Church pf Ireland is actually willing to now listen to the claims of the LGBT community in the Church to be co-heirs in the Kingdom of God - together with all God's children - is a move better than those parts of the Church that look upon Gays as lepers. Jesus, like Saint Francis, would have a word for GAFCON and its supporters of hatred and bigotry.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 11 May 2012 at 11:54am BST

Canon 31: 'for better or worse, till death do them part, of one man with one woman, to the exclusion of all others on either side, for the procreation and nurture of children, for the hallowing and right direction of the natural instincts and affections, and for the mutual society, help and comfort which the one ought to have of the other, both in prosperity and adversity.'

1. 'for better or worse' is the first stated purpose of marriage according to Canon 31;

2. it is a union 'to the exclusion of all others';

3. it is 'for the procreation of children'.

Marriage Service 2:

1. 'living faithfully together in plenty and in need, in sorrow and in joy. (my ears may deceive me, but that sounds like 'for better or worse')
2. It is intended that with delight and tenderness they may know each other in love, and through the joy of their bodily union they may strengthen the union of their hearts and lives (a union 'to the exclusion of all others on either side' might even be consistent with that idea).

3. It is intended that they may be blessed in the children they may have (for the procreation and nurture of children). Procreation is entertained as a normative possibility, rather than a necessity.

Canon 31 is simply not explicit regarding the means by which 'the union of one man and one woman...to the exclusion of all others' is ACCOMPLISHED. There is no proof that the grammatical precedence, per se, accords priority to a purpose. The Dean of Cork infers from the wording that it does.

So, contrary to the Dean of Cork's fragile argument that Motion 8A *could* “constitute a modification or alteration of doctrine”, Canon 31 is entirely consonant with Marriage Service 2. Oh, and (surprise, surprise!) it agrees with sacred writ too!

Posted by David Shepherd at Saturday, 12 May 2012 at 9:01am BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.