Comments: Women bishops: Fulcrum issues a statement

I'm neither a lawyer nor a General Synod member, but I'd be very interested to hear from someone who did know what the legal implications of the word "respect" are. For instance, "have regard to" carries a specific legal meaning, doesn't it? , - something like you must demonstrate you have taken something into account when making a decision and that there is a certain burden on you to show that. But what does "respect" mean in the context of legislation generally and this proposed legislation in particular?

Posted by Philip Hobday at Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 7:57pm BST

I commend this encouragement given by 'Fulcrum' for G.S. members to vote 'for' the Draft Motion if they feel that this is the way forward for the Church of England. This would at least allow Women to take their rightful place within the leadership of the Church of England.

However, to expect hard-line dissenters to not vote 'against' the Motion might seem - to them - to open up the possibility of the Motion being passed. I'll bet 'Reform' - who don't really want any reform on this issue - won't be pleased.

One prays that the Holy Spirit will hover over the meeting of General Synod - helping to bring about what Almighty God might require.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 10:23pm BST

Hear hear, Father Smith, even if that means that the legislation falls!

Posted by Benedict at Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 7:55am BST

re Philip's question, which has been asked by several people in the last few weeks. I think the the ABC's piece in the Church Times indicates the sort of meaning it will carry.

Posted by RosalindR at Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 11:50am BST

Father Ron,

Might I ask whether if the vote rejects the legislation you will see in that the Holy Spirit hovering over the General Synod and bringing about God's will for the Church of England? Or will you press for another vote?

Posted by Bouverie at Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 2:20pm BST

I thank Fulcrum for their support.I hope and pray that the Measure will pass this time but if not then those of us who long for women Bishops and have struggled so long will just have to pick ourseves up and carry on with the struggle. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit is with us

Posted by Jean Mayland at Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 6:10pm BST

In response to both Benedict and Bouverie here: I believe that, as Jesus directed his followers in the Lord's Prayer, we are duty bound to pray that 'God's will be done - in earth (in me) as it is in heaven". There is no other way!

This is always my ultimate prayer. What I also need to do is to listen to my own conscience on issues that are important to both the Church and the World, so that I may conscientiously follow the path in which I feel the Holy Spirit is leading me.

In the end, however, I recognise that God alone knows what is best; and after all my striving to do what I think is right, I have to surrender my will to that of my Creator, Redeemer * Lifegiver.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 10:43pm BST

"I am convinced that the Holy Spirit is with us" - jean Mayland. This is a comment which is staggering in the level of arrogance it displays. So is the Holy Spirit not with millions of Catholic and Orthodox Christians throughout the world who believe otherwise? Such presumptive statements need to be checked!

Posted by Benedict at Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 12:17am BST

it does not help to call someone you disagree with staggeringly arrogant. We can all play that game. For many of us it is just as ... shall we say astonishing?... that people believe the Holy Spirit only speaks to a small handful of people who then have the power to impose their interpretation on anyone else.

Do believe it, by all means! But it would really help if we could at least agree that we all genuinely believe different things about how the Holy Spirit works and that this does not imply arrogance. Just difference.
This mud slinging is really getting a bit tedious.

Posted by Erika Baker at Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 8:47am BST

Any assumption that the Holy Spirit is also with those opposed to women's ordination and consecration is also highly presumptive...

(Not in response to any particular statement)

Posted by Alastair Newman at Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 9:38am BST

Yes, please would all commenters refrain from calling each other names. Thank you.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 10:08am BST

In response to Erika, had you read my post carefully you would have noticed that I described the comment as arrogant, not the person.

Posted by Benedict at Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 9:23pm BST

it hardly matters.
The point is that it is high time that we actually respect those who have different views.
I am thoroughly sick of hearing the views people disagree with described as arrogant (invariably staggeringly so), just following the Zeitgeist, un-this, un-that...
They are different. That's all.

And they are based on decades of careful theology.
It is, of course! possible to disgree with them and to have a different theology.
That is the nature of any important debate.

But it has hardly news that many people who are not Roman Catholic do not believe in the claims Rome makes, that they do believe that the Spirit speaks in different ways to people or to churches.
It is not arrogant to make that point, it is just stating a fact that has been known ever since the Reformation.

All the views represented here by those who support women priests, be they from the catholic, the liberal or the evangelial spectrum, are underpinned by established theology. Not theology that everyone has to agree with, but that people ought at least, by now, accept as more than Zeitgeist follwing flim flam.

You want respect - please do start by giving some.
In particular to people like Jean Mayland who has, as far as I am aware, always been perfectly civil, understanding and polite about your position while firmly holding her own.

Posted by Erika Baker at Friday, 26 October 2012 at 5:37am BST
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