Comments: opinion

Zoe William's raises an interesting question. Where would feminists defect to? Hopefully feminists will stay and help the church finish the march to equality. There are additional questions for the feminists who do stay i.e. can they be more vocal and activist? There is a wealth of first class feminist critical scholarship available. We need to hear more of it. It's astounding that, in the many popular articles and posts, so little of feminist critical reading of scripture and tradition has found its way into the debate. Almost makes one thing that feminists have already defected.

Posted by Rod Gillis at Saturday, 24 November 2012 at 4:58pm GMT

Speaking as one 100% in favour of female bishops, I find Giles Fraser's attitude in his column extremely depressing. Whether what he says of conservative evangelicals is true or not, there is an unpleasant taste - at least for me - about the way he says it.

Thank God for the wisdom of people like Stephen Croft - a far more measured, considered response in my opinion.

Posted by Chris Routledge at Saturday, 24 November 2012 at 6:36pm GMT

Mr. Barrow is spot on!
If the Liberal Jews set a marriage or civil partnerships policy, it harms no one outside their faith.
Likewise, the Quakers.
But some obdurate Lords Spiritual can lord it over everybody.
Likewise, in the name of the Crown, some people feel they, and they alone, are right, and others are inferior.
Set the Church free.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Saturday, 24 November 2012 at 6:54pm GMT

I must confess, I mostly admire Fr. Giles Fraser's articles in The Guardian. In this one, on the failure of the Women Bishops Draft Measure at last week's General synod of the Church of England, though; I'm left wondering whether Giles hasn't put too much of the blame onto the likes of the 'Reform' Evangelicals, whose stance really is - 'NO Reform - at any price'.

There is also an opposite polarity of Anglican churchmanship involved here - those, among the more esoteric Anglo-Catholics, who will not have a bar of Women in any sort of sacerdotal ministry - also, at any price. What they were aiming for though - those who haven't yet sought refuge from women in the Roman Catholic Ordinariate - was a much more water-tight arrangement in the church of England that would have guaranteed them immunity from any sort of authority from a Woman Bishop - even that authority that would have allowed them the sort of ministry they want - from an untainted Male Bishop!

Maybe the defeated (amended) legislation would have been too open to a continuing sexist ethos in the Church of England. Maybe God actually wants women to have unfettered episcopal insight! Anyway that what I'm going to be praying for.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 25 November 2012 at 6:23am GMT

You're right to wonder about this, Father Ron, not least because we still don't know for certain whether the vote was actually scuppered by a split amongst the pro-women laity; on the one hand nervous supporters made uneasy by the 'lack of provision' argument, middle-grounders sensitive to the worries of their traditionalist and evangelical friends; and on the other those hard-line supporters who refuse to countenance concessions on the question of principle. Until we know that, there's not a lot of point in Giles venting spleen. It would be a bit rich if he had to turn his fire elsewhere in a few days ...

Posted by Jonathan Jennings at Sunday, 25 November 2012 at 3:18pm GMT

Agree entirely with Chris Routlege. Giles Fraser's language is loutish (as indeed is the language of many contributors to this site).

Posted by john at Sunday, 25 November 2012 at 4:02pm GMT
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