Comments: Installation of the Archbishop of Canterbury

I seem to remember that when Justin Welby was enthroned at Durham - he was taken to task for wearing his mitre on the back of his head! It is good to see that the archiepiscopal mitre was level for the Canterbury enthronements and firmly placed on his head which made our new spiritual leader look most dignified. A good beginning. God bless you, Archbishop Justin.

Posted by Father David at Thursday, 21 March 2013 at 7:36pm GMT

Sad that the rebroadcast isn't available outside the UK. There are Anglicans all over the world who would love to watch.

Posted by Shelley H at Thursday, 21 March 2013 at 9:28pm GMT

Good heavens! Front page Headline in today's Times - "Archbishop opens a new era of 'optimism'"
How long is it since the Church of England and the wider Anglican Communion received such a positive Headline like that? In the light of this great new era of optimism - which I wholeheartedly welcome - I may even have to take up jogging!

Posted by Father David at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 9:35am GMT

Remember: after the installation, you need to keep both the service number and the warranty card.

Posted by MarkBrunson at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 9:40am GMT

Any evidence of Global South bishops snubbing or boycotting was absent as were their minders from the breakaway American groups such as ACNA - which is surely a good thing and in the spirit of the Times headline about 'optimism'.

Posted by Concerned Anglican at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 11:49am GMT

One does feel a throb of tribal loyalty - even perhaps a prickling behind the eyes.

Posted by John at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 11:52am GMT

Shelley H - If you are able to download Expat Shield (there is a free version and I have encountered no problems with this) the Service is available on BBC IPlayer for seven days.

Posted by Rosie Bates at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 4:30pm GMT

Perhaps one of the most encouraging things about the service is, as David Walker (Bp of Dudley and TA columnist) has pointed out, that the congregation boycotted the words 'the wrath of God' and sang instead 'the love of God' in the hymn 'In Christ Alone'. Whilst one may have doubts about singing that the love of God was satisfied by the crucifixion, it's a different universe from the one in which 'the wrath of God is satisfied' by the crucifixion.

Whilst the OoS prints 'wrath' the congregation do seem to have ignored it and sung 'love'.

Maybe there is some hope for the CofE after all!

Posted by Simon Kershaw at Friday, 22 March 2013 at 11:13pm GMT

In Christ Alone is a truly beautiful hymn (in many respects) but inserting penal substitution into the middle of it does take something away I feel.

Posted by Craig Nelson at Saturday, 23 March 2013 at 9:27am GMT

Would churches be fuller if we had a greater emphasis at times upon DIES IRAE? Just a thought!

Posted by Father David at Saturday, 23 March 2013 at 10:37am GMT

Both wrath and love of God were satisfied at the Cross

Posted by Pauline at Saturday, 23 March 2013 at 11:59am GMT

While not wishing to derail the thread into penal substitution, Jeremy Fletcher has written an interesting blog on 'in Christ Alone' and that particular line here:

Posted by Pam Smith at Saturday, 23 March 2013 at 12:21pm GMT

I noticed a distinct lack of episcopal mitres at the 'inauguration'. Is this going to set a trend for the future? Or is the new ABC preparing the way for a more friendly visit from TEC's Presiding Bishop, and wants to put her at ease by not wearing a mitre himself? Perhaps not a bad move.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 24 March 2013 at 10:32am GMT

The wearing of choir dress by attending bishops is entirely normal practice at Church of England events which are not a Eucharist (and even at episcopal ordinations except for the presiding archbishop and his two assisting bishops).

Mitres are not worn with choir dress.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Sunday, 24 March 2013 at 12:54pm GMT

Would churches be fuller if we had a greater emphasis at times upon DIES IRAE? Just a thought!

Posted by: Father David on Saturday, 23 March 2013 at 10:37am

No David !

('just' a thought)

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Sunday, 24 March 2013 at 3:59pm GMT

To give a fair impression to our brothers and sisters of the international Anglican communion reading this but not based in the USA/Canada/UK, it must be said that it is abundantly clear that the thriving parts of the Church of England in England absolutely believe in penal substitution.

Like it or not, when one looks at what the growing churches of the UK have in common the single thing that stands out is a belief in some form of actual penal substitution.

It is therefore both unsurprising and appropriate that the ABC affirmed that in his choice of hymns. Unless he wants to perpetuate decline he will do so throughout his tenure.


Posted by johnny may at Sunday, 24 March 2013 at 8:47pm GMT

"Mitres are not worn with choir dress".

But sometimes are worn with copes? n'est-ce pas?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 24 March 2013 at 10:19pm GMT

Johnny: To give a fair impression of the Church of England the solid middle does not support penal substitution as the ONLY way to understand the Atonement. And there are many thriving churches that choose to reject it in favour of participatory theories of the Atonement. I rather think the differences are born of vocal versus quiet Christianity. But it is about time that the quiet voices gave expression to the depth of their belief and the wonderous loving nature of God that this proclaims.

Posted by Commentator at Monday, 25 March 2013 at 4:17pm GMT

My church is growing, Johnny, and I have never, and would never preach penal substitution. One of the reasons my church has been growing is that I have steadily been picking up "refugees" from churches which do preach this, as well as those who were not churchgoers at all. When those who have made their way to my church talk about why they used to go to those churches, some of which are enormous and wealthy, they usually tell me that it was because a lot of other people went there, or that there were a lot of children and young people for their own to mix with. They often seem to have had very little idea of the theology, which has just washed over them, until a moment when they suddenly started thinking "this doesn't make sense", or "this makes God a monster", at which point they leave. They come to us because we preach a message of inclusion and love.
I often hear this story that growing churches are all conservative evangelical. While some of them are growing, the picture is not as simple as you seem to think, and the very lively debates in the evangelical wing of the church about penal substitution, prompted by very prominent evangelical leaders rejecting it, tend to indicate that this is a doctrine which is becoming less and less believed even in those circles.

Posted by Anne at Monday, 25 March 2013 at 5:11pm GMT

Well said, Anne. May our loving God continue to look with favour on you and your inclusive church, and lead others to join you.

Posted by Malcolm Dixon at Monday, 25 March 2013 at 11:01pm GMT

If you are a Christian out of fear of Hell or desire to go to Heaven, I'm not sure you can really be a Christian. Where is your unconditional love of God? You would just be trading favors, no better (or worse) than the older form of idolatry, trading blood for good crops.

Posted by MarkBrunson at Wednesday, 27 March 2013 at 9:59am GMT

My God, I love thee; not because
I hope for heaven thereby,
nor yet because who love thee not
are lost eternally.

Thou, O Lord Jesus, thou didst me
upon the cross embrace;
for me didst bear the nails and spear,
and manifold disgrace,

And griefs and torments numberless,
and sweat of agony;
yea, death itself; and all for me
who was thine enemy.

Then why, O blessed Jesus Christ,
should I not love thee well,
not for the sake of winning heaven,
nor any fear of hell;

Not with the hope of gaining aught,
not seeking a reward;
but as thyself hast loved me,
O ever loving Lord!

So would I love thee, dearest Lord,
and in thy praise will sing,
solely because thou art my God
and my most loving King.

Author: unknown
Translated by Edward Caswall, 1849

Posted by Simon Kershaw at Wednesday, 27 March 2013 at 12:27pm GMT
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