Comments: West Indies bishops issue statement on same-sex unions

Benighted, Neanderthal, etc., but they draw inspiration from their UK brethren.

Posted by Spirit of Vatican II at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 9:47am BST

This is a dishonest document.

The attitude towards homosexuality is not a culturally fixed icon. Indeed the present position of gay people in the Carribean reflects closely on the nations who were once the imperial power here. So in Saba you can get married, and the former French, Dutch or Spanish possessions open their arms to gay people and the law is very welcoming.

Whereas in former British colonies the same vicious anti-gay laws the UK left behind often remain. It is morally just and an obligation for the British government to agitate for laws they drafted to be set aside.
Using the giving of aid to promote the cause of freedom from oppressive legislation and gay equality is a fair and proportionate response to this evil.

Strange that the only document or text quoted here was one from the English House of Bishops, what a shame the did not start with their obligations under the statement from the Dromantine meeting:
"The victimisation or diminishment of human beings whose affections happen to be ordered towards people of the same sex is anathema to us. We assure homosexual people that they are children of God, loved and valued by him, and deserving of the best we can give of pastoral care and friendship."

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 11:05am BST

Thanks be to God that there are some people who are still willing to stand with God, even in the face of persecution.

Canada should look in the mirror before it starts to bully other countries about the gay issue. Our society is in free fall. The huge majority of people now care only for themselves and will take out as much as they get away with while putting in as little as they can. Because it is "all about me". So much for being a people of God!

Posted by AMPisAnglican at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 1:34pm BST

So sad, so mean spirited, boldly obstinate, unrealistic (spiritually dangerous of body, soul and mind - theirs and other peoples).

What this group of older gentlemen, and they are older men, really mean is the Caribbean Peoples remain in a state of pretending that the intimate lives/loves of some of her people is different than it really is...no muss, no fuss, focus on false double standards and deceit and all will continue to appear exclusively heterosexual and Afro-Caribbean pure...the Bible tells them so as a LGBTI bloodbath continues in Jamaica and other outposts of superstitious damning of *equality and difference* at the Anglican Communion. GAFCON, no doubt will keep them reassured along with their accomplices at the sparsely attended Province of the Southern Cone while the whole of the Western Hemisphere embraces diversity and Christian love of ones neighbors.

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 2:09pm BST

It's not that long ago that Britain, both in legislation and in culture, was profoundly racist to an extent that makes today's racism look positively enlightened. Should the CofE have protested against the Race Relations Bill, on the grounds that it offended against long-standing cultural norms of casual racism?

It is ironic that the most vicious homophobia in the Church of England comes from black bishops. A generation ago, they would have been excluded from their posts on the grounds of race, which could have been backed with with exactly the same sort of language. But it wasn't, because the CofE was better than that then, and saw racism for the wrong that it is. The CofE should be better than that now. When churches discriminate more profoundly, more deeply and more enthusiastically that society at large, something has gone very wrong.

Posted by Interested Observer at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 3:01pm BST

There's a lot of anti-gay violence in Jamaica. I don't know about the other islands.

Patriarchy and promiscuity reign amongst straight, married men on some of the islands. I wonder if there is going to be a call for discriminatory laws against straight men because of this?

Posted by Cynthia at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 7:17pm BST

Odd that the same wing of the Church that likes to use the argument that SSBs are a capitulation to modern culture by a Body that is called to be countercultural, appeals to secular culture as an authority for outlawing SSBs. Seems the Church must be countercultural and prop up the dominant culture at the same time - anything to keep out the gay.

Posted by Bill Dilworth at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 7:59pm BST

"The Bishops and Standing Committee argued that if human rights are being invoked as the basis for same-sex unions, that same principle should be applied to allow Caribbean people the right to affirm their cultural and religious convictions regarding their definitions of marriage."

Fine by me. I see your wager and I make a call.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 8:25pm BST

"The Diocese of Jamaica has this press statement: ...stated that the idea of same-sex unions is totally unacceptable on theological and cultural grounds."

What's truly "unacceptable" (on GOSPEL grounds) is the vicious homophobic violence we've seen in Jamaica. Anathema!

"if human rights are being invoked as the basis for same-sex unions, that same principle should be applied to allow Caribbean people the right to affirm their cultural and religious convictions regarding their definitions of marriage"

HUMAN rights CANNOT be Zero-Sum. The rights of Human A can never abrogate the rights of Human B. If the W.I. bishops are trying to claim that they have the *human rights* to override the human rights of LGBTs, that's a ***non-sensical non-starter***.

Posted by JCF at Tuesday, 30 April 2013 at 9:00pm BST

Interested Observer wrote:
It's not that long ago that Britain, both in legislation and in culture, was profoundly racist to an extent that makes today's racism look positively enlightened... It is ironic that the most vicious homophobia in the Church of England comes from black bishops.

I note that Archbishop Desmond Tutu is a strong supporter of human rights for all children of God, including LGBT children. Further, Corretta Scott King noted that she and MLK were supporters of gay equality, and noted the participation of gays in the Civil Rights movement for African Americans.

Yes, it is most sad that some of the most recently oppressed are now the oppressors. It certainly mirrors the early history of Christianity. It goes to show that the church has erred numerous times, including on misogyny and homophobia.

Posted by Cynthia at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 1:09am BST

I, like Interested Observer, find it hard to understand how those once (or even now) on the receiving end of prejudice, can notwithstanding also be on the giving end. President Obama said it well at the inauguration earlier this year; Seneca Falls (vote for women); Selma (anti-segregation of Blacks) and Stonewall (rights and dignity for Gays)are all connected. Civil Rights are human rights and human dignity. If I thought our Lord were of any other persuasion, I wouldn't be a Christian.

Posted by Sara MacVane at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 6:13am BST

The dishonesty is also in conflating legal recognition of same-sex unions and opening up of marriage to same-sex couples with decriminalisation of homosexuality and prevention of anti-LGBT violence.

Posted by Savi Hensman at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 10:28am BST

Bishop Drexel Gomez has a lot to answer for - in his implacable stand against the Gay community in the Church. Homophobia is still rife in places other than the Global South, but the West Indies is not immune to sex and gender difference. Kyrie eleison!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 12:36pm BST

"While claiming to invoke human rights as the basis for such imposition, we submit that the same principle must allow us the right to affirm our cultural and religious convictions regarding our definitions of that most basic of social institutions, marriage."

So why not a legally protected right to antisemitism? It is an affirmation of "cultural and religious convictions" after all.

Posted by FD Blanchard at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 12:50pm BST

Bill Dilworth's reaction is my own: whenever Anglicans in Canada insist (by way of argument contra marriage equality) that our task is to challenge and transform the culture, I note that they invariably weren't to be found pressing for the Anglican Church of Canada to amend the marriage canon before 2004.

Posted by Geoff M at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 8:40pm BST

Credo in unum gayum

Posted by Father David at Wednesday, 1 May 2013 at 9:47pm BST

When was the last time the religion of the Churches was counter-cultural ?

E.g. The BCP 1662 simply accepts the situation on the 'Plantations' in its Baptism of those who are of Riper Years

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Thursday, 2 May 2013 at 12:24pm BST

ED: perhaps my sole voice for the Caribbean will be heard. The stats on patriarchy and promiscuity are clear.

Perhaps the post is somewhere in spam.

Posted by David Shepherd at Friday, 3 May 2013 at 8:10pm BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.