I think this is a very sad end to Barry Morgan's tenure as Archbishop.He is effectively creating an order of bishops, who will be a second class variety by virtue of protective legislation.
Why does Dr. Morgan's simple logic seem to elude so many in the CofE? The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, with which TEC is in full communion, has elected a woman as its Presiding Bishop. As an Episcopal "meme" puts it, "Now there are two."
The last time WB came before the governing body, it failed by 2 votes in the House of Clergy. I think the Archbishop simply doesn't want it to fail again. As for the nature of the provision, Wales has no PEVs and isn't likely to have, so I can't see provision being stronger than a code of practice with perhaps an appeals/mediation procedure.
So, the Welsh Bishops will continue to phenomenon of 'alternative episcopal oversight'? One wonders at the need to hold back any positive decision over Women Bishops - until another measure is passed giving dissenters the right to act as if they had never been ordained in the Church in Wales!
This potential for a structurally divided/divisive Church is hardly in tune with Our Lord's prayer that all might be one. A two-tiered episcopate hardly supports that thesis.
Father Ron - 'This potential for a structurally divided/divisive Church is hardly in tune with Our Lord's prayer that all might be one.'
With respect, Father, I fail to see how it was the traditionalists who chose the path of division and disunity by ordaining women as priests, nor can I see how is it the 'dissenters' who are causing further division and disunity by promoting the consecration of women as bishops.
There isn't any alternative episcopal oversight in Wales Father Ron. We are independent of England.
The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy.The ordination of women bishops would clearly be a step in another direction.
"The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy."
As to Clive Sweeting's desire for the Orthodox, without knowing what are their "main branches" I am disinclined to ally with any church which is a home for ultra-nationalist tendencies and biases.
As for the RCC, while I have great hope for Pope Francis, and for the possibility that his back-to-true-Christianity pressures may lead to less navel-gazing bishops in future years (leading to a truly reformed RCC), I am disinclined to accept the RCC vision as it broadly stands today.
However, I do believe that women priests will come to the RCC during the next several decades, so that anti-WP forces in Anglicanism may have only the orthodox for refuge.
Archbishop Morgan has stated it rather succinctly, and I appreciate that.
The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy.The ordination of women bishops would clearly be a step in another direction. -- Clive Sweeting
That boat has sailed. The Anglican church already has women bishops. And even the Church of England has agreed that it will -- at the moment it's just talking about how. THe impact on possible reunion with the RCs and the Orthodox has been minimal to non-existant, in my opinion, because neither is interested or cares about reunion. Look to the Ordinariate if you want to see the only kind of reunion in which Rome is interested -- a lot kinder to Anglicans than many were willing to believe possible, but not by any stretch of the mind "reunion".
Surely, if Rome were really interested in a better relationship with the Anglican Church it would already have rescinded the papal bull which declared Anglican Orders invalid? This means that neither men nor women (Anglican) are valid clergy in the official estimation of the Roman Catholic Church. We need to face that fact, fairly and squarely.
If Rome wants re-union, it will have to put its money where its mouth is supposed to be.
> [N]either men nor women (Anglican) are valid clergy in the official estimation of the Roman Catholic Church. We need to face that fact, fairly and squarely.
The traditional Anglo-Catholic answer to this would have been that Rome was wrong in denying that Anglicans had maintained the Apostolic Succession, but that Anglicans had then cut the ground from under their own feet by breaking the consensus of East and West and unilaterally altering the Apostolic Succession to include women.
Veuster's comments need to be qualified. True the Catholic Church do not accept Anglicans as being in Holy orders or apostolic succession , but we believe they have a ministry to their own community of faith, like Mormon elders or salvation army officers to theirs. God looks at the heart and judges their sincerity on the knowledge they have.
Whether the Church in Wales is actually recognized by the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches is of the greatest importance, but the Church in Wales ultimately stands by its conformity with the canons and the Oecumenical Councils of the early Church which together with the Pastoral Epistles appear to rule out women bishops.It is more likely that other historic churches will recognize the Church in Wales if it remains true to these principles.
Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.
Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to
the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill
the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select
'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No
third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical,
advertising, or other purposes.