Comments: Women Bishops in Wales

I think this is a very sad end to Barry Morgan's tenure as Archbishop.He is effectively creating an order of bishops, who will be a second class variety by virtue of protective legislation.

Posted by Robert ian Williams at Thursday, 15 August 2013 at 6:00pm BST

Why does Dr. Morgan's simple logic seem to elude so many in the CofE? The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, with which TEC is in full communion, has elected a woman as its Presiding Bishop. As an Episcopal "meme" puts it, "Now there are two."

Posted by Old Father William at Thursday, 15 August 2013 at 6:23pm BST

The last time WB came before the governing body, it failed by 2 votes in the House of Clergy. I think the Archbishop simply doesn't want it to fail again. As for the nature of the provision, Wales has no PEVs and isn't likely to have, so I can't see provision being stronger than a code of practice with perhaps an appeals/mediation procedure.

Posted by Helen at Thursday, 15 August 2013 at 8:13pm BST

So, the Welsh Bishops will continue to phenomenon of 'alternative episcopal oversight'? One wonders at the need to hold back any positive decision over Women Bishops - until another measure is passed giving dissenters the right to act as if they had never been ordained in the Church in Wales!

This potential for a structurally divided/divisive Church is hardly in tune with Our Lord's prayer that all might be one. A two-tiered episcopate hardly supports that thesis.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 18 August 2013 at 1:57am BST

Father Ron - 'This potential for a structurally divided/divisive Church is hardly in tune with Our Lord's prayer that all might be one.'

With respect, Father, I fail to see how it was the traditionalists who chose the path of division and disunity by ordaining women as priests, nor can I see how is it the 'dissenters' who are causing further division and disunity by promoting the consecration of women as bishops.

Posted by Steven at Sunday, 18 August 2013 at 11:46pm BST

There isn't any alternative episcopal oversight in Wales Father Ron. We are independent of England.

Posted by Helen at Monday, 19 August 2013 at 10:22pm BST

The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy.The ordination of women bishops would clearly be a step in another direction.

Posted by Clive Sweeting at Tuesday, 20 August 2013 at 5:16pm BST

"The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy."

Why?

Posted by Erika Baker at Tuesday, 20 August 2013 at 5:38pm BST

As to Clive Sweeting's desire for the Orthodox, without knowing what are their "main branches" I am disinclined to ally with any church which is a home for ultra-nationalist tendencies and biases.

As for the RCC, while I have great hope for Pope Francis, and for the possibility that his back-to-true-Christianity pressures may lead to less navel-gazing bishops in future years (leading to a truly reformed RCC), I am disinclined to accept the RCC vision as it broadly stands today.

However, I do believe that women priests will come to the RCC during the next several decades, so that anti-WP forces in Anglicanism may have only the orthodox for refuge.

Archbishop Morgan has stated it rather succinctly, and I appreciate that.

Posted by Jerry Hannon at Thursday, 22 August 2013 at 12:48am BST

The Anglican church needs primarily to reinforce its links with the main branches of Christianity,i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, and the main branches of Orthodoxy.The ordination of women bishops would clearly be a step in another direction. -- Clive Sweeting

That boat has sailed. The Anglican church already has women bishops. And even the Church of England has agreed that it will -- at the moment it's just talking about how. THe impact on possible reunion with the RCs and the Orthodox has been minimal to non-existant, in my opinion, because neither is interested or cares about reunion. Look to the Ordinariate if you want to see the only kind of reunion in which Rome is interested -- a lot kinder to Anglicans than many were willing to believe possible, but not by any stretch of the mind "reunion".

Posted by John Holding at Friday, 23 August 2013 at 4:34pm BST

Surely, if Rome were really interested in a better relationship with the Anglican Church it would already have rescinded the papal bull which declared Anglican Orders invalid? This means that neither men nor women (Anglican) are valid clergy in the official estimation of the Roman Catholic Church. We need to face that fact, fairly and squarely.

If Rome wants re-union, it will have to put its money where its mouth is supposed to be.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 25 August 2013 at 12:43pm BST

> [N]either men nor women (Anglican) are valid clergy in the official estimation of the Roman Catholic Church. We need to face that fact, fairly and squarely.

The traditional Anglo-Catholic answer to this would have been that Rome was wrong in denying that Anglicans had maintained the Apostolic Succession, but that Anglicans had then cut the ground from under their own feet by breaking the consensus of East and West and unilaterally altering the Apostolic Succession to include women.

Posted by Veuster at Tuesday, 27 August 2013 at 12:58pm BST

Veuster's comments need to be qualified. True the Catholic Church do not accept Anglicans as being in Holy orders or apostolic succession , but we believe they have a ministry to their own community of faith, like Mormon elders or salvation army officers to theirs. God looks at the heart and judges their sincerity on the knowledge they have.

Posted by robert ian williams at Thursday, 29 August 2013 at 7:30am BST

Whether the Church in Wales is actually recognized by the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches is of the greatest importance, but the Church in Wales ultimately stands by its conformity with the canons and the Oecumenical Councils of the early Church which together with the Pastoral Epistles appear to rule out women bishops.It is more likely that other historic churches will recognize the Church in Wales if it remains true to these principles.

Posted by Clive Sweeting at Monday, 2 September 2013 at 1:39pm BST
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