Comments: Changes in British Social Attitudes

That Mrs. Thatcher has a lot to answer for!

Posted by Father David at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 10:56am BST

Probably not, Father David. Table 1.1 of the new British Social Attitudes show that the % identifying as Anglican/C of E was still 37% in 1990, Mrs T's last year in office.

Unless you mean, as has sometimes been claimed, that Mrs T was instrumental in getting George Carey instead of David Shepherd chosen as ABC. In that case, you may be right, Father David.

Posted by Iain McLean at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 12:42pm BST

Religion dropping in popularity, Anglicanism by about half.

Homosexuality has moved from something most disapproved to something that only a minority disapprove of.

Anglican Church is openly homophobic in its official pronouncements.

Perhaps there's a link? Perhaps younger people, whose view of homosexuality is positive and regards it as entirely unexceptional, are reluctant to join an openly homophobic organisation which does everything in its power to deny equal rights to homosexual people, and whose recently appointed Archbishop aligns himself with the most hardline bigots in order to impose that denial on the whole population? Perhaps?

Posted by Interested Observer at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 1:08pm BST

Or how about George Carey with his ridiculous 'Decade of Evangelism' and open homophobia and the public relations disaster otherwise known as Rowan Williams? Justin Welby has already come in for some stick on this site but at least he seems a little bit more aware of how the C of E comes across to an (on the whole) tolerant and increasingly liberal general public!

Posted by Stephen Morgan at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 1:10pm BST

Iain - I was thinking more of the concentration in Mrs. Thatcher's period of office on the concentration upon the individual rather than upon the corporate or communal. Nay, surely the first name on the list when she chose George Carey was that of John Habgood and not David Shepherd?

Posted by Father David at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 2:33pm BST

Habgood, yes, not Shepherd. Sorry I misremembered the story. Can anybody here confirm that it is true?

Posted by Iain McLean at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 3:10pm BST

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

And how did it profit the Church of England that it hung on to the worldwide Anglican Communion and lost the English?

Posted by badman at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 6:19pm BST

Iain and Fr. David, what official role, if any, does the PM have in advising the monarch (Queen Elizabeth, in the case of every PM since 1953) about whom to select as Archbishop of Canterbury?
Does the PM have an unofficial role?
As long as the CofE is an Established Church, it should expect State intervention/interference along with its State privileges. S/he who pays the piper names the tune.
Whatever people think of disestablishment, in modern times, I have yet to see any reaction by the US Congress or the US president to how or in whom the Episcopal Church (USA) chooses its presiding bishop. Considering the ideological make-up of the members of Congress from one of the two major political parties, they're more aware of who the moderator of the Southern Baptist Convention is than who is presiding bishop.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Tuesday, 10 September 2013 at 8:07pm BST

I have been waiting for a lawyer to answer Peterpi's question. As none has, here goes. Any 'Crown' appointment (including all C of E bishops) is made by the monarch on the advice of her ministers: i.e., the Prime Minister of the day. Traditionally, for diocesan bishops, the C of E supplies two names in order of preference. In the case that Father David and I have highlighted, Prime Minister Thatcher chose the second name on the list. There were rumours at the time that the Church had nominated an exceptionally weak second candidate in order to ensure that Mrs Thatcher chose the first name. But she exercised her right not to.

However, in 2007, Prime Minister Brown (whose heritage is Church of Scotland) announced that he was abandoning that discretion, so that the PM just becomes a postbox for the Church's choice. Although PM Cameron has said nothing, it is understood that he has continued Brown's practice.

Posted by Iain McLean at Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 10:36am BST

The Church of England is, institutionally homophobic.

No amount of dissembling can erase that- ever.

The Church of England remains not only complacent, but unrepentant. I can see no easy way out of the hole into which it has dug itself. But to cease digging forthwith would help it.

The next step encourage services of Thanksgiving or blessing after a civil partnership to be held locally. Do not seek to regulate these prayers and - Do Not Delay !

Lgbt are getting on with our lives.


Posted by Rev'd Laurence Roberts at Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 12:04pm BST

"Britons have not grown any less spiritual, but in line with their relationship with other institutions, more individualistic." CSA Report

'Spiritual' is one of those words that is so vague as to be almost meaningless. I suspect that this response will cover anything from dream-catchers to "I know Nan is looking down on me".

Posted by Laurence Cunnington at Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 3:28pm BST

' 'Spiritual' is one of those words that is so vague as to be almost meaningless. I suspect that this response will cover anything from dream-catchers to "I know Nan is looking down on me".'

Religion covers everything from animal / human sacrifice to combinations of RC-indigenous beliefs and practices, to sacraments, to prayer-wheels, to meditative practices. We seem to have long coped with that, and will, I warrant cope with 'spiritual'/ spirituality covering so many beliefs, ideas, feelings and practices.

I don't have a dream-catcher apart from my note-book, and I do believe in the communion of saints including 'my nan.'

I'd say The Church of England is in no position to discriminate.

Posted by Rev'd Laurence Roberts at Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 5:47pm BST

Iain McLean on Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 10:36am BST,

Thank you! The idea of the PM's office just being a letter-drop for the CofE's choice(es), to be simply delivered to Her Majesty, I rather like.

Posted by peterpi - Peter Gross at Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 9:23pm BST

George Bernard Saw. " there are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics."

Posted by robert ian williams at Sunday, 15 September 2013 at 7:45am BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.