Quite an important journey to Rome coming up!
Between the launch of the new IARCCUM website and Welby's meeting with the Vatican cricket team, the ecumenical engines between Rome and Canterbury are obviously moving full steam ahead!
Amazing when one considers the two communions are further apart theologically than in 1966.In 1966,there was no womens ordination,divorce and re-marriage in the Church of England and homosexuality wasn't even an issue!
Oh come on now, RIW. Can't you spell Wolfenden Report? By 1966 homosexuality was very definitely an issue, it's just that the leaders of GAFCON weren't there to lead everyone astray, and Rome hadn't committed to a very silly attitude ("objectively disordered:" by what acceptable criteria?! And how do you treat such people "respectfully" and with the due pastoral care to which they're entitled as baptised members of the mystical body?)
I've always felt that where Canterbury leads, Rome will eventually follow. True, they've yet to receive the grace of Anglican insights on the role of the papacy outside the state of Vatican City, but no doubt something will eventuate in God's own time.
However, just consider the events of 2013: the first pope to retire, following the trail blazed by our own Randall Davidson in 1928.
Perhaps if there's more dialogue between Rome and Canterbury (not to mention the other, non-England, Anglican churches, some of which also possess very fine cricket teams) then maybe Rome will make some advances on the other issues you mention.
A new website - gosh !
I have been thinking about my experiences and the thought that has come to me is, that,
one must carry the Church of England, while
the RCC carries you...
For what it is worth - still thinking about it all, and wondering what to do.
My homosexuality was an issue in 1966, Robert though I was a devout teen member of the Brethren.
"one must carry the Church of England, while the RCC carries you..."
Carrying on just like the Good Ship Titanic, does the Barque of Peter. ;-p~~~
But seriously: I'm still too much of an ecumenist not to instinctively welcome these *efforts*. Now, whether they're truly grafted into Christ the True Vine, bearing fruit, I reserve judgment (*at least* as long at takes me to dig into these statements---and glory! new website).
"Archbishop Justin gave Pope Francis the following gifts during their meeting in Rome on 16 June. Lambeth Palace Fig Tree Cutting - The Ficus carica ‘White Marseilles’ fig tree was brought to Lambeth Palace by the last Roman Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury, Cardinal Reginald Pole in 1556."
1556?! Is anybody else kind of creeped out by this? Pole could become ABC then, of course, only because his predecessor had (to not sugarcoat) been burned at the stake that year by Her Most Catholic Majesty ("Bloody") Mary Tudor. One can't help but wonder if Thomas Cranmer's ashes helped fertilize yonder fig tree. [And what kind of tree was it, again, that Christ cursed? Symbols, symbols... O_o]
"homosexuality wasn't even an issue!"
Tell that to Alan Turing.
Gracious address from the Pope. What he seems to have - and what seems to inform much of his goodness - is what so few Christian leaders seem to have: a sense of proportion.
I'm struck by how little there is about the Ordinariate on this new website. Odd, no?
I meant in the context of Christianity..no one would have seriously believed in 1966 that Christian Churches would approve homosexual practice.
As for Rome following Canterbury...I believe that we are protected from error, but we can learn much from Anglicans as regards issues like the accountability of clergy etc. For instance no Anglican bishop could sell off their residence without wider consultation.
No Anglican (CofE) bishop holds the freehold of his residence.
"no one would have seriously believed in 1966 that Christian Churches would approve homosexual practice."
Which is odd, because the usual defence to claims that the CofE is systematically homophobic is that it was so active prior to the passage of the Sexual Offences Act 1967 that it went through essentially on the nod. It can't be both.
I am always glad to read Robert Ian Williams' views on this blog. They never fail to reinforce why I am an Anglican.
Archbishop Ramsey played a big part in the safe journey of Wolfenden to the statute book.
"but we can learn much from Anglicans as regards issues like the accountability of clergy etc. For instance no Anglican bishop could sell off their residence without wider consultation." Robert Ian Williams
Yes, that's *exactly* the issue that springs to mind when mentioning the accountability of Roman Catholic clergy.
As did the then Archbishop of Westminster when they both stated that the morality of homosexual relationships was one thing, the legality - quite another, and thus they both supported decriminalisation - an early example of ecumenical
convergence - sorry Robert Williams!
Things look promising with a view to overcoming the chill in ecumenical relations between Rome and The Communion. Hopefully the leadership of Pope Francis and Archbishop Welby, with their stated emphasis on working together on the problems of a wounded world, a kind of aggiornamento of the Lund Principle, will bear fruit.
However, I couldn't help but smile when I read in the article from The Tablet that Nicky Gumbel and Alpha are part of Welby's delegation to Rome. We are going to the moon now!
Rod, do you think that Nicky Gumbel was able to recruit Pope Francis onto one of his Alpha courses, or perhaps even manage to establish an HTB church plant at the Vatican?
@ Fr. David, Interestingly, Alpha courses are popular with some local R.C. parishes here; but Francis has been promoting the big initiative New Evangelisation which has a social justice component. Good PR for Alpha I suppose, getting to meet the Pope and all, reminds me of when the guy from the World Wide Church of God in Texas back in the 70s who used to publish photographs of himself meeting with the Emperor of Japan.
And of course the immense churches in Rome itself are mostly empty while congregations in the new suburbs worship in old shops as the diocese pumps millions into maintaining their historical white elephants............
Martin does well to point out the deficiencies of the diocese of Rome. Only two ordinations last year. Thriving Jehovah's Witness community and a Mormon temple being constructed, in the northern suburbs.
Few people realise that Alpha course has an heretical doctrine of the Holy Spirit slotted in its presentation
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