Comments: Affirming Catholicism and SCP on Bishop of Burnley consecration

I am given to understand that episcopal ordinands are expected to agree to the Principles just as presbyteral ordinands are.

Posted by DBD at Sunday, 1 February 2015 at 5:05pm GMT

Would it not be best to defer the consecration of Fr North until the exact liturgy to be used can be worked out between Fr North,the Anglo-Catholics he represents and the Archbishop of York?

Posted by Laura Sykes at Sunday, 1 February 2015 at 8:30pm GMT

Laura, I don't understand you. Surely that is exactly what the Archbishop of York has already done?

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Sunday, 1 February 2015 at 10:27pm GMT

What this statement affirms - loudly and clearly - is that not by any means all Anglo-Catholics are against the ordination of women as priests and bishops in the Church.

For both Affirming Catholicism and the Society of Catholic Priests in the Church of England to show this measure of support for the proper recognition of women as equally capable of receiving the gift of Holy Orders, bears witness to this important fact, that, as St. Paul says: "In Christ, there is neither male nor female". Either this is a fact, with consequences for the ministry of women in the Church, or its is a denial of Our Lord's own enabling attitude towards the women of his day.

If the ordination of the Bishop of Burnley goes ahead as the ABY has indicated, will our Roman Catholic colleagues then recognise his orders? I doubt that!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 1 February 2015 at 10:42pm GMT

I cannot possibly conceive that swearing allegiance to the recently produced Five Principles will be included among the oaths that bishops have to swear obedience to at their consecrations. They may well be important when it comes to typical Anglican fudge but they have not yet reached the exalted status of sacred texts.

Posted by Father David at Sunday, 1 February 2015 at 10:48pm GMT

Father Ron, the episcopal orders conferred later today upon Fr. Philip North will no more be recognised by Rome than any other orders conferred upon any other Anglican Bishop, Priest or Deacon, yours and mine included. But they do say that actions speak louder than words or even Papal Bulls.
For example Pope Paul VI giving the papal ring to Archbishop Ramsey or, more recently, Pope Francis requesting and receiving a blessing from Archbishop Welby. Yet even more recently, the absence of any official delegation from the Roman Catholic Church at Bishop Libby's consecration.

Posted by Father David at Monday, 2 February 2015 at 5:56am GMT

Quite right, David; no one will be assenting to the Principles in their ordinations, but rather ordinands will not be reaching that stage unless they have.

Posted by DBD at Monday, 2 February 2015 at 8:33pm GMT

DBD, Does that mean that if every future Anglican ordinand has to swear obedience to the Five Principles, they have now reached the Status of Dogma i.e. That which must be assented to in order to be ordained?
Strikes me as being rather like Carey's Lambeth fireside chats with future prospective bishops gaining their assent to that ridiculous document "Issues in Human Sexuality". Didn't Rowan refuse to give his assent and so missed out on becoming Bishop of Southwark?

Posted by Father David at Monday, 2 February 2015 at 10:49pm GMT

Others may correct me if I am wrong, but in the past there were two things which future bishops had to agree to, in the manner that Fr David describes for IHS. The other one was, IIRC, to comply with the now repealed Act of Synod as if it was in fact the law of the land (which it was not).

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Monday, 2 February 2015 at 11:00pm GMT
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