Comments: opinion

Silly question, I am sure, but I read through the de Cruz interview and still don't know what "SCP" refers to. Its meaning seems important for the piece. Where did I miss the definition?

Posted by jnwall at Saturday, 21 March 2015 at 11:50am GMT

It's here jnwall
http://www.societyofchristianphilosophers.com/

Posted by Fr DavidH at Saturday, 21 March 2015 at 7:07pm GMT

Libby Lane says: "I repent of the times that my church has made those people feel less than others, and to feel they don’t belong within the church.” No she doesn't, because when asked about extending to them what was extended to her, she reads the rule book and dodges the question. So she falls into type.

Posted by Pluralist at Saturday, 21 March 2015 at 8:07pm GMT

The original Methodist church in our (historic) township is now a private residence. I haven't seen inside, being unacquainted with the present owners - however, I've heard it's very special. And the grounds afford great privacy.

Posted by Pam at Saturday, 21 March 2015 at 9:08pm GMT

Ah, yes. Of course. Thanks for your gracious guidance.

Posted by JNWALL at Saturday, 21 March 2015 at 9:53pm GMT

"Lane concedes that not having a big gob may have got her the gig. “There has been a recognition that, intentionally or not, there has been a wisdom in choosing somebody who doesn’t provoke a great deal of pre-determined response, because people don’t know what I stand for,” - Bp Libby Lane Interview -

Perhaps, now that Bishop Libby has intimated that she could not approve of Same-Sex Marriage; perhaps the Church is pleased with her not so 'sotto voce', which may have a detrimental effect on her part in her diocesan 'Conversation' about Sex and Gender.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 22 March 2015 at 12:07am GMT

About those "homes in old churches": well, they'd certainly be great places for a house-church! ;-/

Re +Libby Lane on SSM: disappointing, but not surprising. Since she makes waves merely by her second X chromosome, she's predictably reluctant to make additional waves re her (public) views. I hope (and trust) she's for sacramental equality when among her brother (for now!) bishops.

Posted by JCF at Sunday, 22 March 2015 at 1:09am GMT

Several of us did say, at the time of Libby Lane's consecration that this was part of the Lambeth/Bishopthorpe strategy to put 'people like us' in the House and College of Bishops (i.e. not Osborne, Hedges, Faull etc) precisely because they would not be trusted to toe the line on the ordination of LGBT clergy. No offence to Libby: she is who she is. But her comments reflect how 'safe' the appointment was.

Posted by James A at Sunday, 22 March 2015 at 9:14am GMT

Of all people, Lane knows what it's like to be discriminated against because of who she is; of all people, she knows the importance of solidarity and support; of all people, she knows how much it hurts to be denied it.

For her to hide behind rules to exclude LGBT people is a disgrace. She shames herself and her office.

Those who fought so long and hard to equalize consecration in England have every right to turn to Lane and say, "If we fought for people like you, it was a wasted effort."

Posted by James Byron at Monday, 23 March 2015 at 12:03am GMT

I'm afraid I think James A is right about the 'people like us' policy/prejudice. The evidence is growing. Since the perpetrators 'know' they are right about everything, it's difficult for them to see that they are doing wrong in this matter. All the more important therefore for other people to keep pointing it out.

I wouldn't put it as strongly as James B, but it is depressing. Again all the more important to keep the pressure up.

Posted by John at Monday, 23 March 2015 at 11:02am GMT

I think the Guardian Reporter was being most uncharitable when describing those who uphold the Traditional Doctrine of the Church as "Dinosaurs". Personally, I would never be so disrespectful as to describe His Holiness Pope Francis and His All Holiness, Bartholomew, the Ecumenical Patriarch, as "Dinosaurs"

Posted by Father David at Monday, 23 March 2015 at 2:02pm GMT

Well, Father David, the 'Traditional Doctrine of the Church' did declare homosexuals 'personae non grata'. Do you really want to preserve that degree of out-dated 'tradition'?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Monday, 23 March 2015 at 11:48pm GMT

James A and John have the situation perfectly sized-up. It's all about promoting within "The Class of '92" at Cranmer Hall with more than one eye on the Gafcon Primates and other conservative lobbying groups. How could the Wash House and the CNC have been so wantonly irresponsible in allowing the Church of England to sleep-walk in to this scenario? Those of you who have been hoping for +Lucy Oxon on this blog are obviously living in some kind of parallel universe, blissfully oblivious to the Welby-Sentamu project, which is about drawing sharper lines and telling us that the generous, intellectually rigorous, reasoned and pastorally-informed theology which has been the hallmark of the Church of England is a luxury we can no longer afford. Of course, there will be more women bishops - but not necessarily the ones you thought we were going to have. And certainly not the ones who are going to challenge the conservative ascendancy in the House of Bishops and the increasingly Papal style of Primacy!

Posted by Will Richards at Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 9:51am GMT

Well, Father Ron, I see no mention of anything to do with what you refer to in any of the Christian Creeds.

Posted by Father David at Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 9:54am GMT

So Will, what suggestions do you have with regard to halting Pope Justin's project to mould the Church of England into his own image and likeness?

Posted by Father David at Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 5:21pm GMT

Will Richards, the church sleepwalked into this 'cause the old guard was packed with complacent patricians, who thought they could ignore evangelicals who took a page out Dutschke's book and staged a long march through the institution. By the time the blue bloods woke up, it was too late, and evangelicals ran the place.

I don't blame evangelicals for this. They have every right to try and exert influence in the church. They pack in the numbers and raise the money. He who pays the piper ...

Harder to understand, by far, are the so-called liberals who've spent decades appeasing them.

Posted by James Byron at Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 6:58pm GMT

@Father David asks about my suggestions for curtailing Pope Justin's accumulation of power which the Church has not given him. I never thought I would see myself writing this, but this year's General Synod elections are going to be crucial (not least because it wouldn't surprise me if Bishops are being encouraged to prime the 'right sort of people' to stand). But, as Jo Spreadbury's brave revelations demonstrated at February's Synod, if the Archbishops are controlling the CNC to such a degree to ensure that Jeffrey John is never elected as a bishop, it must be fairly easy for them to ensure that only compliant candidates get elected (cf Southwell and Nottingham). As I said, we sleep-walked in to this, aided and abetted by the Wash House, because we did not have enough time to discern who - and what - we are dealing with. It's just another example of what happens when 'secular' business models are given uncritical priority over a more measured, questioning and rooted mode of vocational discernment - whether we are talking about the oil industry or British Gas!

Posted by Will Richards at Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 9:10am GMT

This liberal has never appeased evangelicals. I hope and pray for some women bishops who are more ready to stick out their necks and support gay and lesbian people and their longings

Posted by Jean Mayland (Revd) at Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 7:54pm GMT

This liberal has never appeased evangelicals. I hope and pray for some women bishops who are more ready to stick out their necks and support gay and lesbian people and their longings

Posted by Jean Mayland (Revd) at Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 7:54pm GMT

The day the CNC actually recommends, and follows through with, the election of Dean Jeffrey John to the Bench of Bishops in the Church of England, will be the day I really believe the Church of England has entered into the modern world, with grace and dignity.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 10:53pm GMT
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