Unexpectedly, I'm not surprised at this: the Episcopal Church responded strongly and bravely to its bishops' version of England's "pastoral advice," and a head of steam was clearly building. Something had to give, and it did. Praise be.
I hope and pray that General Convention votes through equal marriage, so the Scots aren't standing alone as they make the same journey as the church they helped found. Solidarity is the best way to withstand the inevitable and ferocious backlash. If nothing else, that backlash will, at last, get this back into England's Synod.
Right on Welby's doorstep. Go Piskies!
Thanks be to God---and thanks be to Scotland the BRAVE! :-D
And the evangelical grouping within the SEC is very small. As I have stated as regards the Church of England that will be the crucial blocking factor.
Frankly, Scotland is a more progressive and forward-looking nation. It is politically less conservative, and it has set exemplars for England in the support and provisions for transsexual men and women.
Therefore, in some ways, these developments do not surprise me.
And I hope that openness and inclusion in the Episcopal Church will serve as a challenge and indictment to the Church of England establishment.
More and more people in the pews now recognise that there is nothing wrong with gay sex, and that it is about... love.
The Episcopal Church in the US has, of course, been a beacon and prophetic example to the Anglican communion.
Attempts to marginalise TEC in the US are made increasingly difficult when Anglican churches on the very borders of England are repudiating the C of E position.
In the end, the dam cannot hold. The streams will flow! And love will win...
Simon, could you add this to my posting.
The case of the Scottish Anglican episcopalians. In the nineteenth century some Anglican congregations refused to join the Scottish Episcopal Church as it was too high church.The last of these congregations joined the SEC in the 1980s, and they are the only congregation ripe for schism. As regards the Anglo-catholics less than 50 joined the Ordinariate.
Can someone give an update on where the Church in Wales is on this?
By most estimates, this group below and their friends is 20-25% of the SEC. I don't think this is a small percentage. I believe P's and G's in Edinburgh is the largest parish in the SEC.
June 14, 2015
Responding to the Decisions on Marriage made by General Synod
At its meeting in Edinburgh from 11-13 June, the General Synod of the Scottish Episcopal Church chose to delete any reference to marriage as being between a man and a woman in order to facilitate its clergy in marrying two people of the same sex.
In contrast to that decision, we reaffirm the doctrine of marriage as given in the Old Testament in Genesis 2:24, reaffirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19:5 and by Paul in Ephesians 5:31 - ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’
We are committed to loving and supporting all the people in our congregations, including many gay people, and in particular at this time those who are left confused and distressed by the decisions of the General Synod.
We will take some time to pray and reflect on what the General Synod has committed to, before we discern what must be done to support people in congregations all over Scotland who will be unable to support this innovation.
Rev Canon Ian Ferguson, Westhill Community Church, Aberdeenshire
Rev Canon Dr Douglas Kornahrens, Holy Cross, Davidsons Mains, Edinburgh
Rev Alistair MacDonald, St Drostan’s, Insch & All Saints, Woodhead of Fyvie
Rev Dr Iain MacRobert, The Priory Church of St Mary of Mount Carmel, South Queensferry
Rev Dave McCarthy, St Thomas’, Corstorphine, Edinburgh
Rev Dr Philip Noble (Retired)
Rev Canon Dave Richards, St Paul’s & St George’s, Edinburgh
Rev Canon Malcolm Round, St Mungo’s, Balerno
Rev Paul Watson, St Devenick’s, Bieldside, Aberdeen
But are those Scottish evangelicals committed to words of our Lord.. " What God has joined together let no man put asunder."
Defending marriage..God doesn't need such persons who turn a blind eye to heterosexual immorality.
Tell the truth cseitz about the "Anglican" Church in North America and divorce!
Dr Seitz both here and elsewhere seems to be fixated by numbers to the exclusion of all else. Yes, as one might expect, a substantial number of Scottish Episcopalians are unhappy at the outcome of Saturday's Synod vote and will naturally wish to take time to reflect on it. On the other hand, the option to refer Section 1 of Canon 31 to the relevant committee as part of the process for its removal was carried by a large majority. As one member of the Synod, has put it on her blog "I think [this] allows us to go forward together, loving one another in our diversity and our difference and our disagreement". A conscience clause will be included so that no-one who objects to same-sex marriage will be compelled to officate at one. I hope and pray that there won't be a schism - after all Scotland has form on this. Equally, it would be objectionable if a minority of the SEC, no matter how large, were able to veto the proposed change. It must be possible to find a way to manage diversity and disagreement within the SEC. There are two divergent and faithfully held views on the theology of marriage at play here (maybe more) and ways must be found to accommodate them both. After all, the CofE manages to stomach the philosophically strange 'two integrities' on the ordination of women. What must not happen is that gay people must not continue to be excluded and marginalised by the church and denied the opportunity for marriage. I am afraid that I have too often seen phrases like 'including gay people' inserted into statements as a sop to avoid accusations of prejudice.
I am a 72 year old who is not gay and like others I have come to a new view on the theology of marriage after careful thought. I am very grateful to Thinking Anglicans for having published links to various documents being prepared for the debates on gay marriage both here and in the USA. I have found them immensely helpful. To return to Dr Seitz - I don't think arguments about numbers are either helpful or fruitful.
Why do you ask me about ACNA? I am not in ACNA and ACI rather famously argued against it.
"In the nineteenth century some Anglican congregations refused to join the Scottish Episcopal Church as it was too high church.The last of these congregations joined the SEC in the 1980s, and they are the only congregations ripe for schism."
This is historically inaccurate and also does not line up with the parishes listed above. Unsurprisingly, as the issues are so different.
Ecumenism and 'open communion' services (including non-Episcopalians) were issues.
Any decent history book can fill in the details.
I have to disagree with CSEITZ. Anglicanism was illegal in Scotland from 1690 to the end of the nineteenth century. However some Church of England congregations loyal to the Hanoverians were tolerated and some of these refused to join the Scottish Episcopal Church, when religious liberty was granted. During the nineteenth century it became an issue of churchmanship and the last congregation only submitted to the SEC in the 1980s. Read the history of St Thomas' and St Silas congregations in Scotland.
Whatever denonination CSEITZ belongs to, my point remains valid, all the so called conservative breakaways are liberal on divorce.
I should have been clear that the blog I referred to in my last post was that of Dr Beth Routledge to which there is a link in the original post on this topic.
To my point. Only St Thomas is on the list of signatories above.
Yet you wrote "they are the only congregations ripe for schism."
I am aware of the parishes that sought oversight from English Bishops when disagreements arose over open communion and other practices (free prayer). These parishes returned to the SEC when the disagreements no longer were relevant. AS they would not be today, High or Low or Otherwise.
"There was however a reaction to the change in practices begun by the Oxford Movement. Between 1842 and 1844 some congregations left the SEC in protest over the introduction of a Canon which prevented the use of non-liturgical services (e.g., open prayer, non Episcopalians involved, etc). By 1880 there were eleven such congregations. During the 20th century these churches gradually re-entered the Episcopal Church, the last to do so being St. Silas in Glasgow in 1986" (from the SEC website).
St Silas did not sign the statement of 14 June 2015.
"Whatever denonination (sic) CSEITZ belongs to."
I am a Priest in TEC. I was licensed in the SEC when I lived there.
"St Silas did not sign the statement of 14 June 2015."
St Silas is currently in vacancy.
Thanks. Perhaps they will.
I see now that Mike Parker has included his name on behalf of St Silas. (David McCarthy was the rector there before he went to St Thomas, and Mike was at St Thomas previously...).
This collection of churches is not identical with those which stepped back from the SEC in the 1842-44 period, for very different reasons (Oxford Movement; worship Canon).
It will be interesting to see how they remain together in the face of the new developments.
It will be interesting to see how many of them are at odds with large sections of their congregation.
It is also instructive to compare the handful opposing the changes with the massive backlash against the anti-marriage guidance issued by the Bishops back in December: http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/006818.html
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