Comments: Southern Africa bishops: Same-sex couples “full members” of church

The CPSA going backwards too.

Seems to be an anglican problem these days.

These people regard us lgbt as 'those people' - if tone is anything to go by. And they can have no idea how deeply they hurt us.

AND they have no idea how very bad they look, with these weak words so lacking in integrity.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Tuesday, 23 February 2016 at 6:01pm GMT

How much better if SA & SEC & Canada and NZ could be part of a global, liberal Anglican fellowship of churches..... Why waste more years in painful hypocrisy and compromise?

Posted by S Cooper at Tuesday, 23 February 2016 at 8:04pm GMT

One has to wonder what Archbishop Desmond Tutu might make of this decision "Not to Bless" Same-Sex Unions.

The Statement made by Archbishop Makgoba still does proclaim a second class status for those faithful monogamously-partnered Same-Sex couples who Love God and their neighbours, without receiving a reciprocal respect for and recognition of their status.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 23 February 2016 at 11:43pm GMT

I share the disappointment that the Anglican Church of South Africa has not made as much progress on this as many of us would like. Nevertheless I can't help but be impressed by the quality of Archbishop Makgabo's Pastoral letter.

It displays an honesty and transparency about their process which is in stark contrast to what we are told about the workings of the CofE's House of Bishops.

I am thinking of the statement that on same sex marriage "I had to report back to the Synod, the only agreement we reached is that we were not of one mind.". Or the final paragraph reporting that they discussed whether Lambeth 98 was immutable doctrine, open to change, or a recommendation that a diocese or province could deviate from.

I suspect that similar discussions are taking place within our own House of Bishops (or perhaps not) but one has to ask why in England it is considered impossible to report to the wider church what is being said in the HOB. Are we not grown up enough?

Posted by Simon Dawson at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 9:21am GMT

The Church of England will do even less..... And English liberals will bravely put the kettle on .....& nothing will change. Suppose nice robes and housing matter more than principle - easier to talk about King and Mandela than risk anything for principles

Posted by S Cooper at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 2:58pm GMT

'How much better if SA & SEC & Canada and NZ could be part of a global, liberal Anglican fellowship of churches..... Why waste more years in painful hypocrisy and compromise?'

Posted by: S Cooper on Tuesday, 23 February 2016,


S.Cooper makes great sense to me.

Some Justice for lgbt, but perhaps balm for a dying Church .....

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 3:25pm GMT

'And English liberals will bravely put the kettle on .....& nothing will change. Suppose nice robes and housing matter more than principle - easier to talk about King and Mandela than risk anything for principles'

I share your disgust and desire for change.

However, sneering is easy and gets us no further forward.

What action do you suggest liberals take?

Posted by Fr Andrew at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 6:22pm GMT

I've suggested many times that a new organisation (a TeC Global) could be formed and English liberals could leave Welby's political holding positions and be part of TEC(UK).... Obviously, that's brave action - stepping out of the Church of England

Posted by S Cooper at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 10:09pm GMT

The 'liberals' knew what to do and have failed to support lgbt all through my lifetime.

Warm words followed by betrayal, has been my experience in both the Church of England and the South London Industrial Mission.

So forgive me if I do not give detailed 'instructions', as invited, Andrew.

Equality in work, in housing, in marriage, in all civil rights applied in all spheres, including 'Church'. Nothing extra.

Btw I am now retired, and so go back a long time, and do not suffer anti-gay words and deeds, or 'liberal' excuses easily.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 10:30pm GMT

I'd love to hear a discussion about how we gay members of the church can be denied two of the sacraments - Orders and Marriage - except on the basis of our being notorious evil livers. According to the 1662 book, that also excludes us from Holy Communion. Where does the stricture against the one leave off and the others begin? Has anyone heard a conversation among theologians about how, in one province, a same-sex couple who are priests can have - and have had - a nuptial mass celebrated by their bishop, while in other provinces, well, their bishop may very well have been willing to see the same couple beaten to death by a mob in the street.

Posted by Daniel Berry, NYC at Wednesday, 24 February 2016 at 10:47pm GMT

It's utterly meaningless. Murderers too are full members of the church if baptised, what of it?

Posted by Lorenzo at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 9:41am GMT
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