Comments: Church of Uganda to boycott next ACC meeting

So much for the Archbishop's report of a unanimous agreement to walk together.

You can only spin so much. Then the facts catch up with you.

Posted by Jeremy at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 11:31am GMT

"I think the death penalty is not acceptable. I think taking someone to jail for a period of time would be sufficient." Stanley Ntagali, October 21st 2009.

He has also called for more substantial consequences for TEC over their support for gay and lesbian Christians.

Should there be equivalent consequences for Archbishop Ntagali, if he doesn't retract this statement? Is the Archbishop of Canterbury happy to mandate the leader of an Anglican Province who supports the imprisonment of people for being gay and lesbian and having sexual relationships?

Or should we simply let different provinces live out their own faith in good conscience, without demanding uniformity?

Posted by Susannah Clark at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 1:42pm GMT

The ┬ĘPearl of Africa" is losing its lustre for me: What other challenges for "Godly Order" around our Anglican world provinces include child sacrifices, witch burning, vertical corruption, Albino Canabalism, despotism (Museveni presides again) and the LEGAL (Church endorsed) persecution/prosecution of LGBTI Anglicans/others?

It's hard for me to look toward the Church of Uganda (Anglican Communion) for spiritual direction=validation when my thoughts go directly to their harming of fellow human beings via superstition, injustice and greed.

I Pray for Uganda.

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 1:54pm GMT

So much for Justin's spin that the Primates were all "Shiny Happy People"
Fr Paul

Posted by Paul D Dean at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 2:00pm GMT

Failing exclusionism, there is always separatism.

Posted by Tobias Haller at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 3:36pm GMT

Would getting out of the Anglican Communion be a form of Brexit that should be contemplated?

Posted by Turbulent Priest at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 5:17pm GMT

Keep it up. The sooner the Communion is shot of Uganda (or Canterbury shot of the Communion, doesn't matter to me) the better.

Given that virulent homophobia's assumed the status of credal truth in the province, and will likely retain it for centuries to come, I enthusiastically welcome schism. They want a pure church, well fine, let them have it, without a red cent from the provinces they condemn.

Posted by James Byron at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 5:25pm GMT

Frankly the only answer that should be given to this statement is ok good bye and let us know when you feel able to live in accordance with Christ's message of love rather than being judgmental humans

Posted by Confused sussex at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 5:26pm GMT

I think it's sad. I guess my take away is that Ntagali is a dictator in his province. There's no democratic process that requires him to listen to diverse voices. In the global realm, he seems to have missed the point that the primates had no authority to impose sanctions/consequences. The authority to do that was voted down by a democratic process (when the Anglican Covenant failed).

It's sad that he believes that Biblical authority rests within himself, that Biblical fundamentalism is the ONLY legitimate reading, and that democratic processes can't contain revelation (or require respect, even in difference). That doesn't seem very Anglican to me.

I suspect that it's troubling to him that the communique also opposed criminalization of LGBTQI people, putting him in the wrong as well. But he didn't mention it. World opinion, as expressed through the UN, is that LGBTQI people have human rights. It is unfortunate for the church to be on the wrong side of that.

Posted by Cynthia at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 6:41pm GMT

I don't know who is pulling Stanley Ntagali's strings. I met him before he was consecrated Bishop of the new diocese of Masindi-Kitara and rather liked him. He comes to Primates' Meetings as a delegate and not as a representative and therefore is in a straight jacket as to what he can agree to. The reality for these GAFCON archbishops and bishops is that ++Justin is going to challenge them on criminalisation of homosexuality in their countries, even if he supports them (which he currently does) on current teaching on marriage. This is an ominous sign for those who think the Anglican Communion should walk together at all costs.

Posted by Anthony Archer at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 8:44pm GMT

Cynthia, I don't know what evidence there is that Ntagali's a dictator: at the recent "gathering," he acted under instructions from his provincial assembly.

Even if more democracy is needed in Ugandan Anglicanism, given that the overwhelming majority of Ugandans condemn homosexuality (we're talking figures that'd do a Soviet election proud), I don't see what difference it'd make.

"Diverse voices" on sexuality in Uganda run a high risk of being murdered. The country is endemically homophobic and, barring some unhinged attempt at "liberal intervention," will remain so for a good long time to come (I'd put good money on us developing warp drive before it's safe to be out and proud in Uganda). There's a cultural chasm between it and the West.

Let us split, and split quickly.

Posted by James Byron at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 10:02pm GMT

It may help, please God, to keep the GAFCON lot still within the Anglican Communion and keep the pressure on ABC, ABY and their ilk, not to mention GAFCON's supporters and string pullers in the UK, Australia and elsewhere. At least this may help to reduce if not prevent the isolation or persecution of LGBTI and other people of all ages in those troubled and troubling jurisdictions.

Remember also, carefully support and pray for courageous ministries like that led by Bp Christopher Senyonjo who was expelled from the Ugandan Anglican Church.

Posted by keithmcianwil at Thursday, 25 February 2016 at 11:59pm GMT

As we say here in the States: "Bye Felicia!"

God bless TEC, and LGBT equality throughout the AC!

Posted by JCF at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 2:12am GMT

Somehow, this does not seem surprising.

What does seem surprising is that Canterbury has not sought to correct the un-Christ like support, overt and complicit, of the Churches of Uganda and Nigeria, for hostile actions against their own people.

At the time that Pope Francis was in Mexico criticizing many bishops and priests in the RC Church there for failing to speak up for the people, including the diversion of national wealth from aiding the poor and instead enriching powerful individuals as well as the human rights abuses of the people by drug cartels & corrupt police & corrupt politicians, I wrote to my own Rector.

While recognizing that Abp. Welby is not the "Anglican Pope" he is First Among Equals and heads the Anglican Communion. I asked my Rector if he could imagine Abp. Welby going to Uganda and Nigeria and doing there the equivalent of what Pope Francis was doing in Mexico?

There is not only a robbery of national economic treasure, which should benefit the people instead of diversion to the personal gain of the Ugandan and Nigerian elites, there are also non-Christ-like attacks upon "the other" which those national churches - part of the Anglican Communion - either endorse or are complicit in allowing to go unchallenged.

What should Anglicans, all around the globe, instead do when it sees such abuses condoned by a member church of the Anglican Communion?

Let's see if Uganda, for one, is now invited to not represent the Anglican Communion for a three year period.

TEC is chastised for incorporating love of humanity, while Uganda seems free to act uncharitably towards so many of its own people, and for turning a blind eye to its corrupt government and society.

Perhaps Canterbury only feels that large numbers of national church parishioners can justify being distinctly un-Christian than the rest of the Anglican Communion.

What then, are the limits of depravity which large numbers of "Anglicans" will justify to Canterbury?

Let Uganda go.

Posted by Jerry Hannon at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 6:11am GMT

From the Lenten letter: "The overwhelming majority of Primates voted that there should be relational consequences..."

Hmm where have I heard that phrase 'relational consequences' before? But the Primates meeting didn't really reference the Anglican Communion Covenant did it?

http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/007208.html#comments

Posted by Andrew Godsall at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 10:50am GMT

Now we all know why Ntagali left the Primates Meeting early. He could not stomach the ABC's castigation of Churches in the Communion who went along with the criminalisation of LGBTI people in their Provinces.

A lot will depend on whether the other Primates of the GAFCON will follow suit. If they do, then it seems likely that something substantive may happen at the next GAFCON Meeting in Chile, which will no doubt be attended by ex-Sydney Primate, Peter Jensen, one of the chief architects of dissension within the Anglican Communion.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 10:51am GMT

If the Church in Uganda leaves the Anglican Communion will the Archbishop of Uganda have to return his purple Canterbury Cap which he is often seen wearing to Lambeth Palace?

Posted by Father David at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 10:54am GMT

I do think we should look at the wider society and eschew a narrow focus on the misdeeds of the Church.

However, one is bound to ask about the roles of the Anglican Church and RC bishops in this legislation and the mind-set that spawned it....

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 12:00pm GMT

I am very sorry my last comment here, should have included an url, but I forgot to press the button. Here it is :---

http://nostringspodcast.com/uganda-president-yoweri-museveni-signs-harsh-law-restricting-lgbt-organizations/

Many thanks

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 12:56pm GMT

Fr. Ron: Surely "Primate" was not your intention for Peter Jensen.

Posted by Richard at Friday, 26 February 2016 at 9:32pm GMT

thank you, Richard. Of course, Peter Jensen ws never a Primate'. He only acted like one. However, he was always present at the GAFCON Primates' Beanfests. That's where his malign influence was most noticed.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 27 February 2016 at 8:46am GMT

In the 19th Century, the bishop (later archbishop) of Sydney was ex officio Primate of Australia. Then in the first half of the 20th Century only one primate was not from Sydney. However since 1966 only Marcus Loane 1978-82 (a more tolerant evangelical) has come from Sydney. I think today most of the Australian church would prefer anyone but Sydney.

Posted by Brian Ralph at Saturday, 27 February 2016 at 7:31pm GMT

"Let Uganda go." - Jerry Hannon -

I thought he'd already gone - before the official Primates' Report condemning anti-gay Activists!

And yet; he hasn't been assigned to purdah, like TEC

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 1 March 2016 at 9:26am GMT

"And yet; he hasn't been assigned to purdah, like TEC"

Of course not!

I told you all the crocodile tears from Justin Welby and the band of merry primates were just that - a lie. The "commitment" to ceasing dehumanization of GLBTI's by the primates was a bit of sleight-of-hand, public relations preservation.

Canterbury will freeze over before Uganda and the rest of their ilk are penalized under the same rules.

Posted by MarkBrunson at Tuesday, 1 March 2016 at 11:20am GMT
Post a comment









Remember personal info?






Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.