Comments: Archbishop of Wales speaks on Homosexuality

The godly Archbishop speaks as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Bless him.

Posted by jnwall at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 4:14pm BST

Praise God for an Archbishop who speaks with sincerity and truth....God Bless him.
Let other Archbishops and Bishops follow his humble, Godly example.
He makes me proud to have a Welsh middle name Emlyn, the home from which my ancestors came.
Allelluia

Posted by Fr John Harris-White at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 4:24pm BST

Perfect...thank you, Archbishop Morgan.

Posted by Leonard Clark at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 4:37pm BST

I applaud Morgan's intent, but disagree with his method: there's nothing wrong with being swayed by the liberal culture of our age, not when it's backed by reason and evidence; and nothing wrong with saying, plainly, that the Bible, as a fallible human creation, is wrong about homosexuality.

The tacit endorsement of biblical authority that comes from refusing to do so ensures that this continues to be fought on the opposition's terms, and ducks confronting a dogma that, in subordinating reason and evidence to the opinions of men who lived millennia ago, is wrong in itself. This "debate" is crying out for a strong liberal voice, making the case in liberal terms, and more, making the case for liberal theology across the board.

Posted by James Byron at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 7:34pm BST

At last, a British archbishop who isn't suggesting this is about a clash between the Bible and 21st century social ideals but is simply that the Bible supports same sex relationships.

Posted by Kate at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 8:11pm BST


"He showed how the Bible had more than one view on homosexuality, as well as other important issues, as the authors of its books developed and changed their opinions."

Yup. That's about it. In fact, the bible has more than one view about just about everything--except the commandments to love God and to love our neighbor.

Strange how stuck some people are on plucking one particular proscription from among the hundreds of barbarianisms in the scriptures and destroying live with it--even to the point of killing them.

Posted by Daniel Berry, NYC at Wednesday, 14 September 2016 at 8:23pm BST

"taking the Bible as a whole, we can come to the same conclusions about committed, faithful, loving, same-sex relationships as we did about slavery."

Um, since w/ the latter Christians have come to universally reject it, I'd say that's some *unfortunately phrasing*, Archbishop! O_o

...but I do appreciate the larger point of your address. Godspeed, Dr Morgan.

Posted by JCF at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 6:16am BST

If only the church had allowed herself be 'swayed by secular culture' on so many counts in the last couple of hundred years, we would not have been left with so much egg on our face. The world does get it right sometimes, Archbishop, and recently, often. Morality is not a matter of revelation. It does not pass our understanding. if it did, we would not even be able to give assent to the Gospel as something good. Enough with Biblical morality already.

Posted by Lorenzo at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 10:07am BST

Thank you, James. Many of us, I suspect, think the present fraught situation in Anglicanism has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with failing to say what we mean by the inspiration and authority of the scriptures.

I would not myself use the term liberal as you have, because in Church matters I think one has to be a liberal something or other - say Catholic or Evangelical - but I hope we would agree that the crying need is to show that it is perfectly possible (and desirable) to revere the scriptures and to listen for the voice of God through them without buying into a literalism which is actually the opposite of faith.

Posted by Barry at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 11:52am BST

Hurrah for Archbishop Barry.

He probably should have said all this much earlier in the conversation. however, much better 'late' than 'never'. Perhaps he will encourage other due-to-retire bishops in Anglican churches to s[peak the Truth in Love, before they retire.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 12:30pm BST

I found his words very confusing. Is it the reporting and editing ? (Not on TA of course !).

Or maybe it is me.

It is no good banging on about the liberal spirit of the age. Many lgbt still don't find our age or its spirit terribly 'liberal' or kindly to us.

This piece from a congregation Ireland encouraged me, though, the couple have been thru a lot to achieve final /penultimate acceptance. I dread the local bishop sticking his oar in....


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/athy-lesbian-couple-return-to-packed-church-to-retake-roles-1.2788134

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 5:52pm BST

"In fact, the bible has more than one view about just about everything--except the commandments to love God and to love our neighbor."

There's more than one view even on loving your neighbor, I think. For example:

"But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded." (Deut. 20:16-17)

Posted by dr.primrose at Thursday, 15 September 2016 at 8:47pm BST

Retire ...nice pension....then bravely speak out.....

Posted by S Cooper at Friday, 16 September 2016 at 8:55am BST

At the risk of going off-topic, @ dr.primrose:

I think Jesus fairly addressed this point w/ the Parable of the Good Samaritan ("who is my neighbor?"). In times of the conquest, the Israelites did NOT view the "the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites" as their neighbors, to be sure!

Posted by JCF at Friday, 16 September 2016 at 11:18am BST

"Retire ... nice pension....then bravely speak out....."

Entering "Archbishop Barry Morgan" in the search facility on this Thinking Anglicans site will show the salutary record of Archbishop Morgan and the wisdom and liberality of his Christian witness and may disabuse one of the unfairness of the above comment.

Give thanks for the ministry of +Barry Morgan.

Posted by keithmcianwil at Friday, 16 September 2016 at 3:20pm BST

"Retire ...nice pension....then bravely speak out....."

Which is part of the argument as to why we should abolish stipendiary ministry but in this case I am inclined to believe that the timing was governed by external events - he can hardly be unaware of the developments in Scotland and the battle underway in England - rather than his personal retirement.

Posted by Kate at Friday, 16 September 2016 at 5:08pm BST

JCF:

Of course, the Parable of the Good Samaritan provides an opposite view to that I cited in Deuteronomy. That's the point -- both views are still found in the Bible.

I think most of us at least try to follow the Good-Samaritan view of "neighbor." But I think we would be quite naive to think that no one follows the Deuteronomy view. Those people may be extreme and, fortunately, small in number. But they're there.

Posted by dr.primrose at Saturday, 17 September 2016 at 1:06am BST
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