Thank you for 'outing' these strange people who are in charge of seven churches. Is there a list to enable us not to sign up?
"The GAFCON Primates Council stands ready to authenticate those who wish to remain Anglican, but if necessary outside local institutional structures"
Isn't the word for that "schismatic?"
"Fr. Gavin Ashenden, Chaplain to H.M. the Queen"
That's a very, very interesting thing. So, the supreme governor of the CofE has a schismatic as their chaplain?
None of those seven "churches" are CofE churches in any useful sense. Five of them have the same name, which is a bit of a give away, and they all meet in libraries, village halls, rented offices, etc. They're all unaffiliated groups which have nothing to do with the CofE structures and don't, for example, make financial contributions to the CofE or take direction or oversight from a diocese. It's hard to see why the CofE should have the slightest interest in their activities.
If you have 'doctrinal clarity', why do you need wisdom? If everything is clear, wisdom is superfluous. On the other hand, if you need wisdom to navigate through the complexity of the real world, it implies things may not be as clear as you hope.
And as for the role of zealotry in the church..
I suppose Christ Church Wyre Forest is the "Ravenite" Church is it? Is Mr Raven still in Africa?
For the second time in a couple of weeks, public domain information has been collated, a list of names constructed and the resulting document published. The purpose of both documents is to provide information about what is going on and who is involved ...
I think they should all be added to the list of Lambeth 1:10 'violators' for failing to embrace clauses (c) and (d):
(c) recognises that there are among us persons who experience themselves as having a homosexual orientation. Many of these are members of the Church and are seeking the pastoral care, moral direction of the Church, and God's transforming power for the living of their lives and the ordering of relationships. We commit ourselves to listen to the experience of homosexual persons and we wish to assure them that they are loved by God and that all baptised, believing and faithful persons, regardless of sexual orientation, are full members of the Body of Christ;
(d) while rejecting homosexual practice as incompatible with Scripture, calls on all our people to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation and to condemn irrational fear of homosexuals, violence within marriage and any trivialisation and commercialisation of sex;
Would anyone like to offer a definition of 'Anglicanism' or 'Anglican' please? Not sure I recognise the definition that seems to be used or implied in these articles or linked bodies.
Some of the seven churches mentioned are not Church of England (I haven't checked all of them) although if you didn't know what to look for you may well think they are C of E.
"Some of the seven churches mentioned are not Church of England"
Unless I am missing something, none of them are.
This is what is in left-wing politics called entryism: groups which are inimical to the main organisation attempting to gain influence to pursue their own, rather than the host organisation's, objectives. The next step (there's a joke there for observers of the left) is for those churches' members to attempt to join the CofE.
Jayne, I think they would point to the careful wording of Lambeth 1.10 and the repeated use of orientation. I know some of these churches have members who would say they are of homosexual orientation but also embrace biblical teaching that homosexual practice is wrong. Those churches would wholeheartedly affirm clauses c and d, though obviously not in the way you would like.
Some are "outside CofE structures" but are nonetheless sponsored by parish churches who remain fully involved and whose members may be trustees and/or members of the AMiE congregation.
NJ the word "faithful" in c) allows the reading you suggest but I think Jayne's point about d) is well made because it applies to all, irrespective of sexual orientation. Indeed, I would read d) as saying that the churches should not discriminate against anyone because of sexual orientation: those bishops in England and elsewhere who have done so should be listed as persons not adhering to Lambeth 1.10.
Hm. "Global movement." Ahem. Er, yes.
NJ, the reason I think they have violated clause (c) is because they have failed to "commit (them)selves to listen to the experience of homosexual persons.
I think violation of point (d) is clear as few appear "to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation" and rather than "condemn irrational fear of homosexuals" they are stoking it!
"Some are "outside CofE structures" but are nonetheless sponsored by parish churches who remain fully involved"
The those parish churches should be asked to justify their support for the appointment of ministers outside the structures of the CofE by bishops ditto. It's incomprehensible how anyone can be simultaneously a member of the CofE and of AMIE, because the AMIE websites talks about "AMiE ministers ... supported by AMiE bishops.". The parish churches which are flirting with schism, because that's what this is, should be held to account.
You can't be a member of an organisation and threaten to form alternative structures if you don't get your way: you should, in that position, leave and work outside. If there are AMIE-supporting parish churches, they should be asked extremely hard questions.
'I know some of these churches have members who would say they are of homosexual orientation but also embrace biblical teaching that homosexual practice is wrong.'
Bet there's not many. Shame on the pastors of those churches for not challenging this damaging and odious non-Christian teaching, or passing their hate off as 'Bible based'.
The existence of Stockholm syndrome isn't evidence that hostage taking is ok.
Supporters of the international GAFCON movement have lined up behind leaders who have whipped up scorn and hatred even against non-affirming LGBTI people. Peter Akinola for instance proclaimed that 'To opine that, unknown to humans, God had hitherto created some people to be homosexuals and lesbians (i.e., sexual orientations) is tantamount to creating God in our own image and introducing a cancerous element into the fabric of the African understanding of marriage and family... Homosexuality and lesbianism thrives on many sexual aberrations and improvisations typical of human selfishness and greed in the name of pleasure and self-actualization.'
Savi, true, but Akinola is a boss through-and-through, a born leader who radiates power and dominance. In another life he'd be an emperor or warlord, maybe both. He can get away with this stuff. Thankfully, most in Gafcon don't have his Type A(++) personality, and even if they'd be tempted to run with his line of thinking, couldn't pull it off.
Simon, thanks for the links to the Charity Commission. I see that Christ Church Walkley entered, under 'who' is the charity for,
• CHILDREN / YOUNG PEOPLE
• ELDERLY / OLD PEOPLE
• THE GENERAL PUBLIC / MANKIND
Odd sort of church if it only includes the young and the old, but then the person who filled in the form went global. In their world, does the use of 'mankind' include women? Who presumably can't preach or lead except when doing so for other women?
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