Comments: Primates Meeting opens in Canterbury

"Leaders from around the worldwide Anglican Communion will meet for five days to discuss religious persecution" according to Christian Today under the banner heading "Scottish Anglicans must face harsher punishment for allowing gay marriage". No irony whatsoever there then...

Posted by Rev Paul at Monday, 2 October 2017 at 6:22pm BST

Scotland leads where England does not dare to go: allowing people the right to follow their sincere consciences on human sexuality. I feel huge solidarity with the Scottish Episcopal Church.

"Punish" them?

Oh yes, that was the Anglican Covenant really - designed to impose uniformity.

There IS no uniformity.

The Scottish Episcopal Church acknowledges this, and allows diversity.

Other primates seem to want to dominate: to impose their consciences on other people's consciences.

In the end you have to resist. It's bullying really.

Posted by Susannah Clark at Monday, 2 October 2017 at 8:51pm BST

Dear Scottish friends: Please don't forget the whiskey and shortbread biscuits when you join us (TEC) on the naughty step. We'll have all the digital gadgets one could need, and our grills for salmon, hamburgers, and hot dogs. I've got my fiddle and hope you can teach me some Scottish fiddling. Peace and love, Cynthia.

Posted by Cynthia at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 6:22am BST

If the ABC wants to hold the Anglican Communion together, kicking out those that disagree might not be the way to go. Just a thought...

It is bullying, and threatening, and all the things we are supposed to stand up against. I think that partly answers the question of why the Church is not seen as relevant in modern society.

Posted by L Nelder at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 8:20am BST

We certainly will, Cynthia, but it will be malt whisky without the 'e', not the Irish variety. More seriously, the language of punishment is interesting and more honest about some people's intentions than the weasel words of ++ Justin. Among other things, it reveals the wish to exercise power, not the enabling power of the Holy Spirit but the oppressive supervisory power of the enforcer which is quite at odds with the Gospel.

Posted by Daniel Lamont at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 10:34am BST

Last week's articles seemed to be a Lambeth effort not only to brief against the Scottish Episcopal Church, but also to convince wavering GS Primates to attend this week's meeting.

Nasty treatment of the SEC--scolding one province in order to find favor with other provinces. But we have seen such sterling leadership from the Archbishop of Canterbury before.

This time, though, did it even work?

I wonder who is in London? Now that the Primates' meeting has actually begun, have we seen an attendance list? (Or a non-attendance list?) Or even a number of Primates attending?

Religion correspondents, take note.

Posted by JeremyB at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 10:55am BST

Technical questions - what kind of "consequences" could the Primates actually impose following the collapse of the Anglican Covenant initiative?

Posted by Erika Baker at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 11:08am BST

As a gay non-believer I am in a way grateful to the C of E for persecuting the Scots. It confirms that we simply cannot trust mainstream Christianity in England to preserve our rights and that the country would be better offer without you.

Posted by Henry at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 4:23pm BST

I am looking forward to some questions from Scots Members of Parliament.

In the Lords as well--to the Archbishops themselves.

Posted by Jeremy at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 5:53pm BST

Well, to no-one's surprise, the Piskies have now been sanctioned.

Let's just call it a day on the Anglican Communion. A house divided may yet stand, but not when most of the residents refuse to give houseroom to those they disagree with.

This can only end is schism, so let's just skip the farce on the road to that, and agree some new structures.

Posted by James Byron at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 9:42pm BST

The Primates pray for the Las Vegas victims, and (per the ACNS) the ACNA responds thus:

"This afternoon (Tuesday), the Revd Canon Andrew Gross, Canon for Communications and Media Relations for the Anglican Church in North America (ACNA), speaking on behalf of Gafcon, said that the decision to invite Michael Curry to lead the congregation in prayer at the Evensong service “put the Gafcon primates in a difficult spot.” He said that they were “forced to look like they are walking together when they are not walking together.""

A "difficult spot"? To be led in prayer by one with whom one disagrees?

This happens, to one degree or another, every Sunday all over the world to Anglicans in the pews.

Of course the Primates, being Primates, have forgotten what this is like. Each Primate usually does the praying, and each Primate usually agrees with himself!

Posted by Jeremy at Tuesday, 3 October 2017 at 11:40pm BST

I love how the updated article describes the fellowship as "extraordinary" and "the best ever," just before noting the absentees.

I'm also moved by the primates statement about Las Vegas and their treatment of our PB, +Michael Curry. FYI, over 80 percent of Americans want gun control. This tells you about the amount of power the monied interests hold here. Prayers are much needed. Thank you.

Now I know the difference between whiskey and whisky! Next, I'll learn the secret recipe for excellent shortbread biscuits. Still looking for a tutor for a Scottish Reel on the fiddle.

Posted by Cynthia at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 12:10am BST

The SEC will be quivering in its boots at the "consequences" to be meted out, but wisely took their decision in the knowledge that this would happen. Every province of the AC should first take decisions that are in its best interests and only consider the AC as a secondary matter, and that includes matters of canonical and other change. The AC may be a family, but each province has its own context and challenges.

Posted by Anthony Archer at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 12:25am BST

It's not schism if they are different churches to begin with.

Lack of clarity on this point is the fundamental ecclesiological deceit that it is very much in the interest of Archbishops of Canterbury to maintain.

The truth of course is that the Anglican Communion is not a unitary body. The Anglican Communion is a family of independent churches, nothing more.

Posted by Jeremy at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 3:34am BST

The briefing video is well worth the 36 minutes if one wants a sense of the Communion.

Posted by crs at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 11:24am BST

"Every province of the AC should first take decisions that are in its best interests and only consider the AC as a secondary matter, and that includes matters of canonical and other change. The AC may be a family, but each province has its own context and challenges."

Entirely agree.

The English House of Bishops should meditate on this.

Posted by Jeremy at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 11:43am BST

"The English House of Bishops should meditate on this."

You'll need to sell it to the incumbent in the See of Canterbury. He is the one with the roles given him by the AC. He is free to reject them, even ones his predecessors may have felt inhered in the office.

This has nothing to do with the HOB, of course. They have no role in the AC.

You would likely find many who agree that the Catholic claims of the See of Canterbury either have no standing and never did, or ought now to be scrubbed away.

Posted by crs at Wednesday, 4 October 2017 at 3:38pm BST

"Continued listening."

We've listened. The conservatives are wrong. Let's move one, in TEC, and, if Canterbury can't hack that, move on from Canterbury. The AC is a corpse polluting the well.

Posted by MarkBrunson at Thursday, 5 October 2017 at 8:06am BST

"This has nothing to do with the HOB, of course."

Really?

You don't think the English House of Bishops comes under pressure from Canterbury to make his Communion role easier?

E.g.: Why wasn't the report that Synod rejected more favorable to same-sex marriage? It obviously did not reflect the mind of the clergy--and you would think that the Bishops would know that.

The Church of England is being led by someone who puts his own theo-political interests first. Marriages in London are being denied in order to placate Lagos.

Posted by Jeremy at Thursday, 5 October 2017 at 9:05am BST

The English HOB have no explicit role in the AC as does the ABC. That was the point.

The ABC has specific roles vis-a-vis the AC. If the CofE does not want him to have these, then that is a remit to be followed up on.

Have at it.

Posted by cseitz at Thursday, 5 October 2017 at 10:55am BST
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