Comments: Windsor Report: ECUSA bishops meet

Simon, I'm glad to see this compilation of links. Even if we may not agree on various points of theology, it is good to agree on the need for prayer for the US HOB. I'd gathered together quite a similar collection of links and posted them on the Lent & Beyond prayer blog:

"http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php":http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php

specifically, this post: "http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=423":http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=423

I've also posted some prayers for Bishops from the 1928 Book of Common prayer
"http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=430":http://lent.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=430

and expect to be posting more prayers and resources in the days ahead.

May the Lord guide and strengthen our Bishops and may He be glorified in His church.

Posted by Karen B. at Saturday, 8 January 2005 at 8:19pm GMT

"Agree to a moratorium on same sex-blessings and the consecration of non-celibate homosexual persons until or unless a “new consensus” emerges in the Communion that such actions are seen as legitimate in the light of Scripture and Christian tradition."

May I have a last cigarette and a blindfold to go along w/ that?

How am I supposed to reconcile the above "request" with the preamble "I write in charity"? What the Bishop of Central Florida is essentially _demanding_, is nothing less than the Episcopal Church's declaration that God's gay children are NOT made "in the Image of God." Their baptisms don't carry with them the same Grace, they are not adopted as God's children, and they are not fully members in Christ's Body (and cannot claim to have standing in that Body, as Christ's Redeemed: their rights to ALL the sacraments of the Church).

This is nothing less than blasphemy against the Trinity, and apostasy from the Church with Christ as its Head. There is nothing "charitable" about this request- _cum_ -ultimatum. Acquiescing to it marks the end of Anglicanism.

I won't worship false gods, and I don't believe ECUSA will, either. _With Christ's help, we will perservere in the faith delivered to the saints!_

Posted by J. C. Fisher at Sunday, 9 January 2005 at 9:40pm GMT

I understood from the Bishop's phrasing that he was simply outlining the particular content of the report that he thought the HOB needs to address. Not advocating, at least in this letter, a particular response.

Posted by M. Crowdes at Monday, 10 January 2005 at 2:13pm GMT

I think that the question that the bishops must deal with is whether or not this is the time to place ECUSA's stand on blessing of same-sex unions and consecration of homosexual persons as bishops above the unity of the Anglican Communion and/or ECUSA's participation in it. I do not think, as J.C. writes, that saying "wait" on these items is a declairation that "God’s gay children are NOT made 'in the Image of God.'” Clearly ALL human beings are made in God's image. The question for the House of Bishops, and for General Convention 2006, is "Are we willing to wait for more of a consensus before proceeding further or is this important enough to risk isolation and expulsion from the Anglican Communion?"

Posted by T. Sramek at Monday, 10 January 2005 at 5:23pm GMT

Is J.C. Fischer saying that anyone who opposes same-sex relations is blaspheming and worshipping a false god? That's rather judgmental for you non-judmental liberal types.
As for the "Faith once delivered to the saints", it should be clear from a close reading of the New Testament that, rightly or wrongly, the faith delivered to the saints at that time did not countenance such behavior(same sex relations), but considered it to be ungodly.

May God be with you all- Porter

Posted by Porter Barber at Monday, 10 January 2005 at 11:34pm GMT

Porter wrote:
"As for the “Faith once delivered to the saints”, it should be clear from a close reading of the New Testament that, rightly or wrongly, the faith delivered to the saints at that time did not countenance such behavior(same sex relations), but considered it to be ungodly."

I'm afraid I take issue with the "faith delivered to the saints at that time" part. I am certain that the majority of Middle Easterners in the 1st cent. C.E. would find such behavior "ungodly," incl. those who authored the works we would come in time to call the New Testament. Good heavens! Paul only *grudgingly* permits male-female marriage as preferable to burning :) However, to give this cultural bias the status of "faith delivered" is going a bit far (as it would be to continue to reject womens' full participation in church or justify slavery based on those same cultural norms).

Posted by David Huff at Tuesday, 11 January 2005 at 3:26pm GMT

T. Sramek poses the following either-or question: “Are we willing to wait for more of a consensus before proceeding further or is this important enough to risk isolation and expulsion from the Anglican Communion?”

I don't think the choices are that limited. First of all, I'm not convinced that proceeding with gay and lesbian inclusion would certainly lead to ECUSA's isolation and expulsion; there are many possible outcomes, the more likely among them being a North-South split in the Communion, or simply more grumbling and griping (from all sides) within a tenuous Communion. But there are also other options, such as ECUSA proceeding on its course, but giving more attention to education and dialogue with other parts of the Communion; allowing for temporary suspension of communion among certain provinces that just can't get along for the time being; or other possibilities. We all need patience to live in the gray areas when most of us long for black-and-white clarity, and that is my prayer for the church as we approach the Windsor Report.

Posted by J. Rebstock at Tuesday, 11 January 2005 at 9:25pm GMT

"Is J.C. Fischer saying that anyone who opposes same-sex relations is blaspheming and worshipping a false god?"

No, only those opposing *Godly same-sex relations*: of the sort faithfully committed to, w/ Christ's help, by LGBT Anglicans.

"That’s rather judgmental for you non-judmental liberal types."

One of several things, Porter, (I suspect) you fail to understand about me, a "liberal type." Judgment? Few *hate sin* as much as LGBTs: after all, we're sinned against by homophobes _All.The.Time!_

(Now, if only I were as good at hating my *own* sins: many they be {sigh})

_Christ have mercy._

Posted by J. C. Fisher at Friday, 14 January 2005 at 6:29am GMT

How sad....
....to once again have had to encounter a far too shallow and narcisistic idea of man as "self" in the words of J.C.Fisher..!! The "problem" with homosexuality is not wether gay people are redeemed in (and by) Christ or not but what kind of ecclesiology that we, as god´s children, can make our own. A post-modern and revisionist view of the Church and her teaching will, whatever Mr/Ms Fisher thinks, undermine any real possibility to promote the living Gospel and be much more devasating to any lay and ordained followers of that message then he might believe!

Posted by P.G.A. Eriksson at Sunday, 16 January 2005 at 10:31pm GMT
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