Thinking Anglicans

Drenched in Grace: Anglicans, Inclusion and the Gospel

Drenched in Grace: Anglicans, Inclusion and the Gospel is the title of the InclusiveChurch residential conference to be held from 21st to 23rd November 2007 at the Christian Conference Centre, Swanwick, Derbyshire.

DRENCHED IN GRACE: Anglicans, Inclusion and the Gospel

More than at any time in the recent past, those who seek to offer an open, inclusive and welcoming Gospel within the Anglican Communion are facing great challenges. Now more than ever we need to be equipped with the theological and ecclesiastical resources which mean that we can with confidence affirm that the Gospel of justice, inclusion and peace we try to communicate is scriptural, rational and central to Anglican tradition.

Confirmed speakers so far are:

Dr. Jenny Te Paa
Principal of Te Rau Kahikatea, College of St John the Evangelist, Auckland, New Zealand and member of the Windsor Commission

Rev. Dr. Louis Weil
James F. Hodges Professor of Liturgics, Church Divinity School of the Pacific, Berkeley California

Rev. Canon Lucy Winkett
Precentor, St Paul ’s Cathedral, London

Rev. Dr. Sharon Moughtin-Mumby
formerly lecturer in OT Studies, Ripon College, Cuddesdon and now Curate, St Peter’s Church, Walworth (Diocese of Southwark)

Mark Russell
Chief Executive Officer, Church Army

For further details see here and for a booking form go here.

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katePhilip GardnerGöran Koch-SwahnePluralistmynsterpreost (=David Rowett) Recent comment authors
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Pluralist
Guest

Not very inclusive on the price of the conference, is it?

Sarah Dylan Breuer
Guest

Sounds like a wonderful time! If anyone out there has frequent flier miles or funds they don’t know what to do with and wants to send an American seminarian, I’ll be the first to volunteer!

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

Will someone briefly explain what the Church Army is for a clueless Yank? My intimate knowledge church things English does not include this – I expect because I’ve not yet read a good murder mystery with a character who is a member! Thanks.

Andrew Gerns
Guest

Cynthia– The Church Army is an Anglican related society of laypeople who function as evangelists for the Church in the world. See http://www.churcharmy.org.uk/ca/us/PurposeValuesAndVision.asp
Blessings.

dave williams
Guest
dave williams

So inclusive that any serious conservative evangelical could sign up to the description! Indeed we could probably send some people along to tell you what we’ve been doing. Opening coffee shops and bookshops on high streets, creating seeker friendly services, creating discussion based courses held in homes away from threatening Church buildings, knocking doors inviting people to churches and offering literature. Preaching a Gospel that says that people are sinners but the God who is loving and full of Grace stepped into history to offer salvation so that people can be included in his community and transformed.

JBE
Guest
JBE

Thank you Dave. You’ve summed up the theological difference between us very succinctly.

You say God stepped into history to offer salvation so that people CAN BE included in his community.

I say God stepped into history so that people ARE included in his community. Yes, even conservative evangelicals. No conditionality: no requirement on “accepting” anything. Are included. Are included.

Giles Goddard
Guest
Giles Goddard

Sarah – some bursaries are available, but not sure they’d cover a flight from USA! contact details re bursaries on the booking form –

laurence
Guest
laurence

JBE sounds like a serious outbreak of Christianity

What a shame the Churches so often obscure this gospel truth : we are accepted.

I appreicate your having differentiated between the two so neatly and turned my heart to eternity on a cold, snowy Wednesday morning !

Yes the jazzy lenten whateverit is won’t be able to xpunge the antics and hurt of Cormac, Rowan and John… a real shame that……….

Thanks…

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“You say God stepped into history to offer salvation so that people CAN BE included in his community.

I say God stepped into history so that people ARE included in his community.”

To Affirm, against the Vale of Tears Demiurge nonsense of Evil Indo European Philosophy.

Matthew Hunt
Guest
Matthew Hunt

There’s that word again, ‘Transformed’. So easily said. So easily glossed over. So easily meaning, ‘just tidied up a bit for the already quite decent straight folk who like lawns and things’ or ‘renounce your sexuality, it’s okay, I’m smiling and Jesus loves you – emasculate yourself for Jesus’. See, this is a common misconception that comes along with modern homophobic prejudice – that gay men (sorry ladies for not arguing your corner here) have already surrendered their masculinity because of the common stereotype of the fey, feminized self-deprecator with limp wrists. God has filled me with hormones, desire, passion,… Read more »

Ford ELms
Guest
Ford ELms

Oh but you see, Matthew, God only created what’s good. All the bad comes from the Devil. Of course, the fact that that’s Dualism isn’t acknowledged. Or recognized. Our rector says that all the old heresies still exist, just in different forms. As far as I can see, Evangelicalism is a curious mixture of Arianism and Catharism.
And JBE, spot on!
Despite this, Dave Williams, what you said about evangelism gives me pause for thought and possible resources.

dave williams
Guest
dave williams

Ford, Glad to give you pause for thought. Not dualism -but yes there is something called evil, there are bad things in the world, violence greed, usury, rape, murder, corruption. To say that I am like something isn’t the same as to say that this is how God created the world or that it is how I will be at the end. I’m an asthmatic, short sighted, short tempered, sarcastic, thin skinned, grumpy, soft hearted, loving, Yorkshireman who likes reading, sunsets and Bradford City winning. Now to insist that all of those things are how God made me and so… Read more »

dave williams
Guest
dave williams

Matthew,

Both and… The Holy Spirit is certainly the one who does the transforming but the Bible also talks about us doing some putting off and putting on. And to reinforce -I’m not interested in a little bit of re-arranging -transformation for me personally in terms of what I need means transformation, radical, life upside down turning from the inside out.

Dave

laurence
Guest
laurence

Today I have felt drenched 0–but not by grace ! ……

Pluralist
Guest

>Evangelicalism is a curious mixture of Arianism and Catharism.<

Oh come on. What nonsense is that? How come?

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

Why assume that its not your homophobia which requires transforming, Dave, rather than my sexuality and the loving relationship I enjoy which flows from that?

Conservatives can never envisage that it might be them who have got it wrong!

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“What nonsense is that?” Emotional hyperbole, largely. My patience with things Evangelical was a little thin. However, you cannot avoid the “Buddy Christ” imagery found either overt or covert in much Evangelical talk. The full implication of the God-Man concept seems lost. Maybe I’ve been reading too much Orthodox literature, of whom someone said she found they had “too much God and not enough Carpenter” in their attitude towards Christ. I find much of what Evangelicals say to be slanted in exactly the opposite direction. Hence the ‘Arianism’. The “Catharism” refers to what seem sto be dualism. Evil seems to… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Dave Williams, “Is the Gospel transformational?” Absolutely. “If it is transformational is it automatic to everyone?” Not sure what you mean here, but if you are asking whether we are all called to metanoia, then yes, our lives should be continually seeking how to be more Christlike. “If the Gospel is transformational what is the transformation it brings about.” Ah, here’s the rub. You seem to think that because “liberals” don’t call homosexuals to repentance, but seek for acceptance of monogamous homosexual relationships, this must mean “Liberals” do not beleve the Gospel is transformational. This is untrue, those with whom… Read more »

dave williams
Guest
dave williams

Ford,

Ah well, it seems that all anyone round here wants to discuss is homosexuality!

I’m also impressed at the ability of people to tell me what I’m thinking when al I’m doing is asking questions

I give up…

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Hm, Ford: in most of my encounters with evangelical theology, the tendency has been docetist rather than Arian – that the emphasis has been to prove the divinity, even at the expense of devaluing the humanity.

I have heard one of the Brethren express outrage at the suggestion that Jesus was not omniscient – being God, surely he knew the world was spheroid, could have designed an electron microscope etc. It’s as if it’s more important that Jesus was God than that he was human.

Pluralist
Guest

Arianism is subordinate divinity, the first born of all creation… It is fanciful. A more contemporary Arianism was recognition of divnity but the superioroity of the Father, and it was biblical especially John’s Gospel. And that which was in John’s Gospel, and had started with Paul, was on the road to the Gnostics and the Cathars. The point here is both Arians and Cathars were subject to rejection and repression, especially the Cathars. In those days Archbishops did not just write direct letters to every member of the cabinet, or in the Anglican case more indirect and understated ones to… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Whatever we call it, all this is just different ways to (fail to) understand the same Thing.

I cannot see that “ways” trump “Thing”.

Philip Gardner
Guest
Philip Gardner

Going back to Dave’s three questions (because I’ve only just come across this discussion) –

Is the Gospel transformational?
If it is transformational is it automatic to everyone?
If the Gospel is transformational what is the transformation it brings about?

Yes, the Gospel is transformational, but my understanding is that it transforms society, not just individuals! That’s why it’s the Good News of the Kingdom of God. Our politics, and especially our economics, are radically corrupted by sin, and need to be equally radically transformed.

kate
Guest
kate

What about the simplicity of the gospel? What about seeing it through the eyes of a child? That which is complex is only so because of its utter simplicity. The gospel is true as it occurs to you in a certain time at a certain place. Therefore, in itself, the gospel is transformational.