Thinking Anglicans

Goddard2Goddard continues

The InclusiveChurch/Fulcrum joint project continues. There are now several letters from each contributor posted. You can see links to all of them, at either InclusiveChurch or at Fulcrum.

The latest letter from Giles Goddard starts here. (I’m sure it will be on Fulcrum as well, quite soon.)

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MadPriest
14 years ago

I would have more faith in Fulcrum and Inclusive Church if they weren’t made up of and controlled by so many ambitious people. Many of them also happen to be academic snobs who are disdainful of the grass roots of the Church and how we choose to communicate. Groups like these always lead to fudge and never to revolution as revolution would probably remove what they crave.

seeker
seeker
14 years ago

Straight speaking ! Terrific to hear this being said as it is.

Up the revolution

(yours unambitious nonperson floating on the breath of god )

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“No theology can possibly be built on the back of anecdote and I have no doubt you could find powerful stories of the effectiveness of a more conservative approach. But my point is that we are not talking in a vacuum. We are dealing with real people’s lives, faith and loves and in that context we have to tread carefully, lest we tread on their dreams.” Giles Goddard Please don’t miss the “real peoples lives, faith and loves” part….also, “tread carefully, lest we tread on their dreams.” As Bishop’s Akinola and Orombi “build” yet more ugly and humorless “anecdotes” against… Read more »

Prior Aelred
14 years ago

I was struck by the honesty of Giles Goddard’s words — in particular this, “And in that context I’m afraid I have to say that I don’t think your position is sustainable. I don’t think it’s sustainable biblically, theologically, pastorally or ecclesiologically.”

I do believe that, in the long term, he is quite right about this.

As Dr. King said, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”

Pluralist
14 years ago

Rather a good letter, I think (plain speaking from an unambitious academic snob).

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Yes, I remain glad that Giles Goddard has the energy and the interest left to engage with his companion from Fulcrum. It helps me discern how much I personally have moved on, without quite realizing just how far I had moved onwards in faith and in humanity. I am not, not, not, mainly concerned in daily life with constantly addressing conservative straight peoples’ continuing legacy doubts about whether I could possibly be up to anything good or common sense decent in my life just because I am not straight and also not conservative just like them. Like Bishop Paul Marshall… Read more »

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Having posted a bit on StandFirm, for example, I can say that – minus the key 90 percent of human communication that is nonverbal – the feeling tone, not to mention the negative thinking, is unremittingly hostile. No matter what, full stop, period. Are any of the Fulcrum views that much more open and willing to address the results of the available empirical hypothesis testing? StandFirm replies are flatly disinterested in any good innate to my real world queer life and work and relationships. One bright fellow solemnly and (as he estimated) lovingly opined that his wide reading had revealed… Read more »

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Repeated conservative religious false witness against people who are not straight passes without notice. Religious believers continue to presume that anything and everything bad or awful in a queer citizen’s life must have been caused, somehow, in whole or in part, by the person not having a straight sexual orientation. This is just one of the Really Big Lies that religious believers feel constrained to repeat so often. No conservative leader, except for some very oblique comments from Canterbury which get quickly lost in the flux as erudite to the point of obtuseness, worries any Global South Anglican much, let… Read more »

Giles Goddard
14 years ago

what would revolution look like , Madpriest? a thriving church committed to a gospel of justice and generosity? well, that would be a start, I suppose. There are lots of ways to turn a wheel – we’re trying to do it by engaging with those with whom we don’t agree. In the present climate that feels a bit revolutionary!

And I have to say I don’t recognise many academic snobs among those involved in IC .. and is a parish between the Elephant and Castle and Peckham not grass roots enough?

MadPriest
14 years ago

He started it.

Cheryl Clough
14 years ago

In MadPriests defense, some of the cruelest and most selfish people I have ever worked with have come from liberal/labour movements. I have been delighted to see a renaissance of articles in the last few months with the labour movement in various countries realising they had lost touch with their religious allies from their early years. They have been so busy fighting arch conservatives that they have allowed themselves to stereotype all religious people as conservative. That has done themselves a disservice. It has also done the conservatives a disservice as they have been able to erroneously develop a paradigm… Read more »

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