Thinking Anglicans

Catholic Group in synod responds to archbishops

PRESS STATEMENT

From the Catholic Group in General Synod

Responding to the statement of the Archbishops of Canterbury and York Re. forthcoming women bishops debates

The Catholic Group in General Synod is grateful to the Archbishops for their suggestion of a possible way forward for the Church of England, both to enable the consecration of women bishops and to provide for those who cannot in conscience accept the ministry of women bishops. We are particularly grateful for their recognition of the need for bishops with jurisdiction in their own right to minister to us, and to all those who share our convictions.

We look forward to studying the amendments in detail when they are published. We very much hope that they will provide ‘nominated bishops’ who will be real leaders in mission and ministry. It is also be vital that the amendments provide for us to continue to hold a principled theological position, looking to the faith and order of the undivided Church. We believe that the Church will be better served by the consistency of a national scheme of provision.

The Catholic Group is wholly committed to securing provision within the Church of England.

Canon Simon Killwick

(Chairman of the Catholic Group)

As reported by Anglican Mainstream.

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Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

I do hope ‘Affirming Catholics’ will also write to the Archbishops – while at the same time voicing protest at the use of the ambiguous term: ‘THE CATHOLIC group in General Synod’ – if only to remind F.i.F. people that they won’t be the only Catholic Group in General Synod. This is a rather deceitful way of inferring that all A/Cs are anti-women’s Ordination – which is not true. Mind you, does Rowan know that? Or does he really believe that ALL Anglo-Catholics are against the idea of Women as equally capable of being called by The Lord of The… Read more »

Ed Tomlinson
Guest

I think Affirming Catholicism might get heard a little better if it first explained what ‘Catholicism’ it affirms given that they support all that leads AWAY from Rome and Constantinople and the teaching of the church down the ages. Most are now honest enough to admit that the real cause is liberalism and that many members are only Catholic in as much as they wear a stole. Others do enjoy the full ceremonial which seems really odd without the doctrine. If many refer to the Catholics as those embracing Catholic teaching do not be surprised. You might ponder why you… Read more »

Nick Lincoln
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Nick Lincoln

‘The Catholic Group’ is just a name given to a particular group of like-minded members of Synod who represent organisations like FiF. It’s really not intended to be deceitful. I imagine it’s a name that’s been used for a long time, well before the ordination of women. And yes, I think +Rowan does get the difference between the different sides of Anglo-Catholicism…

Fr John
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Fr John

Fr Ron you are on the ball again! Using words that do not belong to them is their trade mark. Affirming Catholics are at the heart of Anglicanism, and the Church of England. Its time these so called cathololics were told to either get on their bikes and ride to Rome or shut up. Remember how many of them in the last journey to Rome, having taken the cash, quietly re turned home to the Church of England. There can be only one Diocesan Bishop the centre of Unity in Faith and Mission in the diocese.

Fr John (Scotland)

Ed Tomlinson
Guest

The answer is that far, far, far less returned than remained within Rome. what is your point?

Fr Mark
Guest

Ed T: “Most are now honest enough to admit that the real cause is liberalism and that many members are only Catholic in as much as they wear a stole. Others do enjoy the full ceremonial which seems really odd without the doctrine.” Why do you need to knock those of us who are Catholic but do not entertain your prejudices against women clergy? Without what doctrine exactly? Most European Roman Catholics, including clergy, approve of the ordination of women http://viaintegra.wordpress.com/women-priests-in-europe/ Do you also lose no opportunity to insult Roman Catholics by telling them they are not really Catholic if… Read more »

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Hmm, perhaps, part of the point is that antiwomen AngCaths are persistent in their efforts to collapse the big tents upon which Anglican church life was clearly founded. They will insist – usually in holier than thou tones of voice – that we all have to relive the pertinent religious wars in hopes of getting yet another grip on how to re-invent the Elizabethan Settlement – (alas, how typical, just like some woman to come up with that?) – consistent with our varied times, places, persons. Above all, common prayer across differences is intentionally meant to be rendered vexed and… Read more »

Rev Sidney Jensen
Guest

If the Church of England creates women Bishops why can’t A/Cs just accept that is the kind of Church it is? To believe that we have women Bishops, whilst believing – within the same Church – that we do not, is utterly ridiculous. Obviously, one hopes Fr Tomlinson will be happy in communion with the Holy Father. I cannot see how we are moving AWAY from Rome when it is inevitable that one day they will move TOWARDS us. In the meantime, the Pope has made a kind offer to those A/Cs whose bluff has been called. Why does FiF… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

“The Vatican’s top-down line does not represent the sensus fidelium on the issue in the RC Church” Hear, hear, FrMark. Sadly, this is true of the AC as well. The ABC and his flunkies (not to mention many loud-mouth primates—some of whom, frankly, have LGBT blood on their hands!) fulminate re “the mind of the Communion”. The reality is that there is NO “mind of the Communion” . . . only many *minds* within (more or less) the AC, whom are Not Agreed. Why do hierarchs try to FORCE a uniformity (all too often, calling it divine) that doesn’t really… Read more »

Pantycelyn
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Pantycelyn

‘Others do enjoy the full ceremonial which seems really odd without the doctrine.’ Thurs 24 June. You said it ! Well the Book of Common Prayer is certainly free of that sort of ‘doctrine’.It was a Protestant compilation,in its day, explicitly designed to exclude the sort of ‘doctrine’ that smacks of (or leads towards Rome.) Historians of Church History and of Liturgy are agreed – notwithstanding Newman’s famous / infamous Tract! The oxymoronicly named ‘Catholic Group’ (Splinter Group ? / Universal Seg(ment) wants to avoid bishops who happen to be women, so that it can continue to make-believe that it… Read more »

Pantycelyn
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Pantycelyn

I am happy being a liberal protestant minister. Though the ‘prot’ bit I feel pushed to mentioning it, as so denied here. It’s not a word I love, or feel will take us far into this century, but it is an important reminder of our history and of the need for intellectual and spiritual and social vigilance, in fact semper reformanda.E.g. No challenge or even initial critique of the new Government coming from the Churches ? I think the various Reports of the Doctrine Commission from 1948 onwards make clear the wide range / spectrum of belief among C of… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“In the meantime, the Pope has made a kind offer to those A/Cs whose bluff has been called. Why does FiF not simply move to a Church which does NOT have women Bishops, instead of staying in one which partly might. And partly might not?” – Posted by: Rev Sidney Jensen on Thursday – Well said, Sydney. As you rightly say, the Pope is offering Ed Tomlinson and his ‘Catholic group’ the way out of his dilemma. He and they are free at any time to bow to their own tender consciences – by continuing to pretend they are still… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest

The consistent answer to Rev. Sidney Jensen’s question from these so-called “orthodox” anglicans is “Why should *I* have to leave *my* church?!” That pretty much sums up the entire anti-WO side of things, in my experience, especially where the clergy are concerned. Their conscience and devotion to an ephemeral “faith once delivered” ends at losing pensions, or having to make painful sacrifices about vocation, or . . . even just doing things differently. I suspect there is also a good deal of realization that, along the Roman model, the first time they complain, they’ll be put down quickly and effectively.

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

It is an unfortunate fact that the word ‘Catholic’ like the word ‘Christian’ has been hijacked by a narrow sect who do not represent the majority of those who formerly used the word. Both words have become debased by this hijacking and become associated with narrow minded, legalistic and controlling individuals and groups who seek to narrow and impoverish the true meaning of both words.

Rod
Guest
Rod

Clearly “Catholicism” is bigger than its narrow, ultra-conservative definition. Striving for unity is one thing, but if communion with Rome is the only true way to be Catholic, then the Catholic movement in the Church of England has been worthless. The C of E has to understand that to introduce women bishops AND appease the minority who cannot accept them is impossible. To do so takes Anglican compromise to nonsensical extremes. It should therefore move forward with honesty and integrity. For those Anglo-Catholics and others who cannot accept these developments, the only option, sadly, is to move to Rome or… Read more »

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

‘Clearly “Catholicism” is bigger than its narrow, ultra-conservative definition. Striving for unity is one thing, but if communion with Rome is the only true way to be Catholic, then the Catholic movement in the Church of England has been worthless.’ Well, ditto the Evangelical and Liberal ‘movements’ in the C of E ! Just I shall not surrender the term ‘Catholic’ to the RC establishment, nor will I concede it to High church men, either. It is our birthright (cf the Creeds, & formularies) and is of importance to others in the C of E. Being Protestant does not stop… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“I cannot see how we are moving AWAY from Rome when it is inevitable that one day they will move TOWARDS us.”

This, Sidney, is where the Popoids (wherever they currently park their birettas) go “La-la-la-la-la-la! I can’t hear you! La-la-la-la-la-la!”

To quote (and then paraphrase) The Victorian Lady re the Theory of Evolution: “Heavens! Let us pray it isn’t true. And if it IS true, let us pray it does not become widely-known . . . and if it DOES become widely known, let us pray we die BEFORE it takes effect!” ;-/

Geoff
Guest

“Others do enjoy the full ceremonial which seems really odd without the doctrine.” If the male priesthood and the heretical soteriology it rests upon are the sum total of the Catholic Faith to the likes of Fr Ed, then count me out. I’m happy to be a “Protestant” who affirms the Sacrifice of the Mass, purgatory, the Assumption of Our Lady, and all seven sacraments – for all the baptised. (I am still waiting for an explanation of how someone whose understanding of the Mass is more or less gleaned from the Catechism of Trent cannot be a “Catholic” unless… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

“Others do enjoy the full ceremonial which seems really odd without the doctrine.” Well, if your ‘doctrine’ includes the fallacial argument that God can only work through the ministry of a male priest to bring forth the Body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist, you are welcome to it. It is simply not the ‘catholic’ doctrine many of us Anglo-Catholics aspire to. Also, if the ‘full ceremonial’ is part of one’s worship practice – without the understanding that Christ was representatively (fully) human – then it may be of little worth to Christ – who died for all people.… Read more »

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

I’m starting to think the Anglo-Catholic tradition (which formed me) is now doing more harm than good.

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

‘I think Affirming Catholicism might get heard a little better if it first explained what ‘Catholicism’ it affirms given that they support all that leads AWAY from Rome and Constantinople and the teaching of the church down the ages.’ I wish Ed and FiF could explain what ‘Catholicism’ they have in a Protestant Church with official protestant teaching (cf the formularies, liturgies and Doctrine Commission reports of the Church of ENGLAND). Yes, I know the most extreme Anglo-Catholic churches use the RC Liturgy and Calendar (or should that be Kalendar ?), including the Feast of the Chair of St Peter.… Read more »

Geoff
Guest

Moreover, can FiF explain how it reconciles its catholicity with being catered to by provincial episcopi vagantes, raised up from a sect within a church to a ministry as “confirming Sams”?

Neil
Guest
Neil

I think Pantycelyn has something important to say when he says being Protestant does not stop one being Catholic. For all the unacceptable flaws of the CofE seeming to add as a matter of essential doctrine the ordination of women, the RC church will not even discuss the matter – and this seems to me to be in blatant disregard of what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.