Thinking Anglicans

Southwark episcopal election makes news

Updated Sunday lunchtime

Tomorrow’s Sunday Telegraph has an article by Jonathan Wynne-Jones headlined Gay cleric in line to become bishop in Church of England.

Update

A second article in the Sunday Telegraph by Jonathan Wynne-Jones has now appeared online, see Meeting on appointment of gay bishop will determine future of the Church.

The official document entitled BRIEFING FOR MEMBERS OF VACANCY IN SEE COMMITTEES (version dated November 2009) is available here as a PDF file.

The process of selecting a diocesan bishop is also described here.

The Southwark Diocesan Statement of Needs can be found here. (PDF)

Members of the Southwark Vacancy-in-See Committee are listed here (scroll down).

The national members of the Crown Nominations Commission are listed on this page.

The Southwark nominees to the Commission are listed in this press release.

The meeting “next week” is in fact on Monday and Tuesday 5/6 July.

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Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

The appointment of Dr John would be ideal.

Bill Dilworth
10 years ago

I wish Dr John well (although at this point I would be thinking, “Fool me once, shame on you – fool me twice…”). But I’m uneasy with his use as tame gay person.

Jeremy
Jeremy
10 years ago

Some of the reports on this story in the blogosphere are leaping to the conclusion that the Archbishop of Canterbury must be supporting Dr John’s candidacy.

Is it not also possible that the Archbishop was simply outvoted?

jnwall
jnwall
10 years ago

Naming Dr John to this post is the only decent thing to do. His being forced to stand down for Reading was an atrocity and signaled to the fundamentalists that the ABC had no spine and would cave in to pressure. We have had nothing but trouble over this issue since then. According to official statements, it is homosexual acts that are troubling, not homosexual orientation. So gay folk who are celibate are officially not barred from any ministry of the church. The denial of this post to Dr John is an indefensible act even by conservatives on this issue.… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
10 years ago

“Members of the Crown Nominations Commission, the body responsible for selecting bishops, will vote this week on whether Dr John’s name should now be put forward to the Prime Minister for final approval.” – Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Telegraph – We all need to pray for the Commission, that God’s choice of candidate(s) may be approved by those on the Crown Nominations Commission. I, and I am sure many others, will be glad of the possibility of Jeffrey John becoming a Bishop in the Church of England. His treatment at the hands of the Church on the last occasion was less than… Read more »

Marshall Scott
10 years ago

Could someone tell me the political bent of the Telegraph, and perhaps whether there is any known political (whether church or state) inclination of Mr. Wynne-Jones? The phrasing of much of the article seemed to me inflammatory – and perhaps calculated to be so.

Paul Barlow
Paul Barlow
10 years ago

I’m sure he’s very gifted, and would make a good bishop. But why would he want to put himself through “all that” again?

JCF
JCF
10 years ago

So the *sole* difference between the (Rowan-condemned) +Glasspool in TEC, and a Rowan-consecrated (+)John in the CofE, would be the latter’s stated celibacy (and, oh yeah, that Y chromosome)? O_o

I’m not buying it. I don’t think it (John’s elevation to the episcopate) will happen (not under Rowan!)

Scot Peterson
Scot Peterson
10 years ago

Marshall:

It’s also known as the Torygraph. ‘Nuff said. There’s a long tradition of journalists being inflammatory on this issue over here. Poor Ruth Gledhill, now behind Murdoch’s Times pay wall, always seemed really provocative, but she was actually quite sympathetic with the Liberals. We all just have to be careful to read the journalists we’re sympathetic with in order to reduce the likelihood of a blood pressure spike with our Wheaties (or Weetabix) in the morning…

Sara MacVane
Sara MacVane
10 years ago

I’m afraid I agree with JCF that it ain’t gonna happen – the more’s the pity, since the candidate is sterling. I wonder why the C-of-E uses the terminology ‘celibate’ (not married) to mean ‘not sexually active’ (but what an invasive pretention to ask candidates ‘do you….???’ – I wonder whether ABC asked +Glasspool? otherwise why did he go on about her? Very unanglican in my estimation)

David Keen
David Keen
10 years ago

Reading the article, it reminds me of the kids at school who stood around shouting ‘fight! fight!’ whenever an argument kicked off. I wonder if for once we could resist slotting neatly into the roles that these scriptwriters give us.

Göran Koch-Swahne
10 years ago

“Some of the reports on this story in the blogosphere are leaping to the conclusion that the Archbishop of Canterbury must be supporting Dr John’s candidacy.

Is it not also possible that the Archbishop was simply outvoted?”

Maybe he hasn’t got a sense of shame? But it would be an incredible loss of face…

Wilf
Wilf
10 years ago

It doesn’t really mean much that he is on the shortlist. I wouldn’t have expected anything else. It would only have taken one of the fourteen members of the Commission to ‘mandate’ his name for consideration to have him on the long list. Then he would only have needed, say six or seven of them to make it onto the shortlist. There will be probably five or six names that they will be considering tomorrow and to be nominated a candidate will need two thirds of the votes. That means that if five of the fourteen do not vote for… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
10 years ago

“Dr John is a hugely divisive figure in the church after he was forced to stand down from becoming the Bishop of Reading in 2003 after it emerged he was in a homosexual, but celibate, relationship.”

Where’s the logic? Dr John was forced to stand down and that makes h i m divisive?

Jeremy
Jeremy
10 years ago

The Telegraph has another article this morning.

In it Jonathan Wynne-Jones predicts the likely repercussions within the Church of England, among the Anglican Communion, and vis-a-vis the Roman Catholic Church.

But he still says that “it is highly likely” that Dr. John will become a bishop.

I assume Wynne-Jones says this because someone has given him a sense of how a vote in the CNC would go tomorrow or Tuesday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/7870316/Meeting-on-appointment-of-gay-bishop-will-determine-future-of-the-Church.html

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

Rabidly right-wing. (Usually) hardly fit reading matter for a(n unchaperoned) Christian.

‘Could someone tell me the political bent of the Telegraph, and perhaps whether there is any known political (whether church or state) inclination of Mr. Wynne-Jones? The phrasing of much of the article seemed to me inflammatory – and perhaps calculated to be so.

Posted by: Marshall Scott on Sunday, 4 July 2010

cryptogram
cryptogram
10 years ago

This looks very much like the anti-John lobby getting their retaliation in first. The Rector of Morden, who was prominent among the objectors to ++Katherine presiding and preaching at the cathedral recently, has been warning that there will be a ConEvo walkout unless they get someone of their kidney. Time to call their bluff.
cryptogram

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

If he is elected by those charged with the task, he will be consecrated. Williams’ has no veto. We have no ‘pope’.

It is clear now, that his consecration would make no difference to the current condition of the C of E or the Anglican Communion– the homophobes have really shot their bolt on that one. They have huffed and puffed– but the house remains standing proud. Bullying and hate speech only hold back our agency for a limited time.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
10 years ago

See some thoughtful – and skeptical – comment and over at Episcopal Cafe.

Göran Koch-Swahne
10 years ago

The second article by Mr Wynne-Jones intimates that Dr Rowan is planning to use his friend a second time for his own gain. Judas only did it once.

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

This must be progress I suppose — I was ordained by ‘the openly gay’ (odious weasel phrase) Mervyn Stockwood of Southwark over 20 years ago and was openly gay myself. Still with the same man after 37 odd years — openly !

chenier1
chenier1
10 years ago

Congratulations on your 37 years together, Pantycelyn! If the initial response over at the Anglican Mainstream is anything to go by then we will need everyone of those 37 years. http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2010/07/04/lynne-featherstones-proposal-for-religious-dimensions-to-civil-partnerships/ It asserts that: In Male and Female Homosexuality, Saghir and Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years. Comments for the article are switched off, which is perhaps unsurprising given what follows. What it neglects to mention is that the research in question was published in 1973, when homosexuality was still largely underground. Their research, which radically challenged the sort of views… Read more »

Lister Tonge
Lister Tonge
10 years ago

Q: What is the primary objective in the minds of the Torygraph (or any other newspaper) as they run this story? A: To sell newspapers. As a journalist friend of mine reminded me, yesterday, the facts are presented so as to make the most ‘interesting’ story (he was instancing the spin on last Sunday’s Westminster ‘sensation’). ‘Take a few facts and see how mischievously we can put them together’. It works like a dream, gets us all going; and the Rowan-bashing continues apace. Poor JJ has to live with it and so will the poor man eventually appointed who will… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
10 years ago

I thought it was a done deal for Nick Holtam – hence all that business of tidying up the question of divorce etc a short time ago…….

Sara MacVane
Sara MacVane
10 years ago

Would doubt that JJ and the ABC were still friends. One-time friends surely.

Jeremy Pemberton
Jeremy Pemberton
10 years ago

I gather from an email I have received that a campaign against Jeffrey John is growing including emails to Lambeth Palace, designed to reach Rowan before he begins the Crown Nomination Committee meeting at lunchtime tomorrow. It’s vital that Rowan is aware of the level of support, so if you think it would be a good idea for Jeffrey to be considered properly and fully by the CNC, could you write to sarah.walker@lambethpalace.org.uk AS SOON AS POSSIBLE showing your support and saying why – that he’d be an excellent bishop/teacher/pastor and a man of great and prayerful integrity…. etc ….… Read more »

rjb
rjb
10 years ago

The idea that the election of a gay bishop in the Church of England might be shocking news must raise a weary smile in some quarters. That particular train left the station a looong time ago.

That said, I wish Fr Jeffrey the very best – he is clearly an outstanding candidate, and even the Crown Nominations Commission can’t hold out against the Holy Spirit forever.

evensongjunkie
evensongjunkie
10 years ago

Don’t start counting those chicks before they hatch!!!! And yes Pantycelyn, congrats are definitely in order!!!

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
10 years ago

I must confess that I sometimes get a little dis-heartened by the negativity of some of us towards the possibility of a change of heart (and mind) on such things as this – the possibility of Jeffrey John’s election to the episcopate. If we really do believe in the power of God’s Holy Spirit to move the Church in a direction that is for the ultimate good of the Church and the World, we ought to believe that – even in the present circumstances, and especially if we pray for God’s will to be done – there might be a… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
10 years ago

“The appointment comes at a particularly delicate time, with the Anglican Communion still coming to terms with the consecration of its first lesbian bishop in May and the imminent visit of Pope Benedict XVI, who is uncompromising in his opposition to homosexuality”. – Jonathon Wynne-Jones – Telegraph – If Jeffrey John does become the next Bishop of Southwark, this will surely be a sign to the Pope that the Church of England rejoices in its God-given freedom to be what God might want it to be – a sign of God’s redemptive power and love abroad in the Church. When… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Rod Gillis
10 years ago

Oh those pesky Erastians are popping up everywhere,from bishoprics in England to Jesuit parishes in the States. Thanks to “The lead” for the lead on this one.
http://www.pewsitter.com/view_news_id_35081.php

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
10 years ago

I see no correlation between the despicable way criminal perverts were continually forced on unsuspecting children by the RCC and its attitude to homosexuality.

Richard Ashby
Richard Ashby
10 years ago

Martin. I think that there is every correlation between the actions (or inactions) of the RC Church and its attitude to homosexuality. They are both about power and sex – a lethal combination.

junius
junius
10 years ago

‘even the Crown Nominations Commission can’t hold out against the Holy Spirit forever.’

rjb, please don’t put money on that.

simon dawson
simon dawson
10 years ago

Father Ron, You made an interesting comments about Cardinal Newman in your posting, and I agree that the Pope’s sanctification (is that the right word?) of Newman will raise many questions for the catholic church. Just one question though, not to challenge but in a friendly spirit of enquiry. You said “When Benedict 16 formally declares John Henry Newman to be a Saint, he will also be affirming a celibate same-sex partnered bishop of the Church Universal in his choice of fraternal relationship.” On what basis do you state that Newman was celibate? We know there are many writings in… Read more »

Malcolm+
10 years ago

Although JHN was a Cardinal, I do not believe he was ever a bishop.

Göran Koch-Swahne
10 years ago

“I see no correlation between the despicable way criminal perverts were continually forced on unsuspecting children by the RCC and its attitude to homosexuality.”

Both are morally wrong!

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
10 years ago

“I see no correlation between the despicable way criminal perverts were continually forced on unsuspecting children by the RCC and its attitude to homosexuality.” – Martin Reynolds – Both are morally wrong! – Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday – Thank you Goran. This is precisely what was meant in my posting, referred to by Martin Reynolds. With reference to Simon Dawson’s query on Monday; you are perfectly correct, Simon. I have no evidence that Cardinal John Henry Newman was actually ‘celibate’ in his relationship with Fr. St.John – in terms of sexual activity. However, I am aware that Newman… Read more »

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

Newman was a priest. Not a bishop.

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

Thank you both very much, chenier1 evensongjunkie— you are too kind ! And yes, it was 1973 !

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

I made a slip-Freudian or otherwise– I meant to press the 3 key ! I was ordained over 30 years ago by Bishop Mervyn, the gay, Catholic, Charismatic, freethinker who helped establish ‘South Bank theology’ and a thriving pastoral care and counselling movement with weekly experiential groups and supervision groups. It thrived for years until Butler brought it down. ‘This must be progress I suppose — I was ordained by ‘the openly gay’ (odious weasel phrase) Mervyn Stockwood of Southwark over 20 years ago and was openly gay myself. Still with the same man after 37 odd years — openly… Read more »

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

The appointment comes at a particularly delicate time, with the Anglican Communion still coming to terms with the consecration of its first lesbian bishop in May and the imminent visit of Pope Benedict XVI, who is uncompromising in his opposition to homosexuality”.

– Jonathon Wynne-Jones – Telegraph –

Nonsense, the visit of Joseph Ratzinger to his denomination, is irrelevant to all this. As is the consecration in the US.

If anything the time is right. It would chime in nicely with the Newman thing.

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