Thinking Anglicans

Gledhill on Southwark election

Updated again Monday afternoon

Anglican Mainstream has reproduced an extract from a blog entry by Ruth Gledhill under the (confusing) headline Scholastics v Orthodox: As Jeffrey John story breaks, we have Bishop Marshall’s ACC resignation letter. Ms Ruth Gledhill.

It includes the following:

It is of course possible that the Archbishop of Canterbury has had a dramatic Pauline conversion to the justice argument of gay rights campaigners in the Church of England. More likely is that he was boxed in and had little choice but to approve Southwark’s mandatory candidate. Nick Holtam from St Martin-in-the-Fields is likely to be the other name that goes forward to the Prime Minister. Under the new rules of the Crown Nominations Committee, David Cameron would normally expect just one name but I believe he has on this occasion asked for two.

The Times subscribers can find the whole article here.

Updates

The Australian has reproduced a news article from The Times headlined Gay bishop to divide Anglicans.

Anglican Mainstream has also published the following:

Anglican Mainstream – the full quote in the Times

Urgent Call for Prayer from Anglican Mainstream

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badman
badman
10 years ago

If Cameron has asked for two names and Jeffrey John is one of them then he should pick Jeffrey John. He will show that one of the disciplines of being an established church is that you are subject to public opinion, which is against discrimination. He will also demonstrate that he is gay friendly which is part of his political project; and he will do something liberal which costs no money; which is all he can afford at present. By asking for two names, Cameron has reversed Gordon Brown’s agreement to receive only one. Cameron is not indifferent (as Brown… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
10 years ago

The PM’s two-names request can be read two ways.

It is possible that David Cameron has requested two names because he wants some flexibility — a way out if the debate gets too hot.

It’s also possible that David Cameron has requested two names so that he can send a message by choosing to approve Dr John.

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
10 years ago

I do hope all contributors to this thread will plug into the BBC link provided, to listen to the dialogue between Canon Giles Fraser and clerical protester-at-large, Mr Sugden – on the possibility of a split in the Church of England if Jeffrey John were elected Bishop of Southwark. As Giles points out very clearly here, Sugden’s comparison between Jeffrey John’s personally admitted homosexuality, and the incidence of a public servant who conceals a criminal background, is preposterous, and demeaning of Dean John. Giles, having himself been a parish priest in the Southwark Diocese, with some internal knowledge of the… Read more »

badman
badman
10 years ago

One of the leaders of the (small) conservative evangelical protesters in Southwark is the Team Rector of Morden. He has an article up on Anglican Mainstream in which he expands on his “alternative episcopal oversight” hopes.

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2010/07/01/reflecting-on-the-appointment-of-the-next-bishop-of-southwark/

They sound quite far fetched to me. His equation of equality for gay people with “child abuse” is also quite extreme. However, there is hope. His main concern seems to be that “a deep longing for stable relationships” needs to be satisfied. Will he be pleased when he discovers how strongly the author of “Permanent, Faithful, Stable” agrees with him?

Judith Maltby
Judith Maltby
10 years ago

All this needs to be remembered in terms of the upcoming debate on women bishops – and especially the sadly ill-conceived amendment from the two archbishops. If the ‘co-ordinate’ bishops with jurisdiction that they propose ‘make sense’ or are appropriately ‘pastoral’ for when the bishop is a woman (whatever her sexuality), surely they would ‘make sense’ and be appropriately ‘pastoral’ if Jeffrey John becomes bishop of Southwark.

john
john
10 years ago

Wet as I am, I dearly hope that JJ will be appointed. What a glorious rectification of an historic injustice that would be. What a fine defiance of bigotry, stupidity and dishonesty (since JJ completely fulfils ‘the church’s criteria’ regarding homosexual relationships [not, of course, that I accept them]). And I am sure that there will be voices within quite traditional Evangelicanism in support. Try for starters: http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/ (not positive but cautioning against protest); also Lee Proudlove (alias ‘Anselmic’), who, pretty Evangelical as he is, completely accepts JJ’s honesty and admires him personally.

‘Ruat calem, fiat justitia!’

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

Also Lee Proudlove (alias ‘Anselmic’), who, pretty Evangelical as he is, completely accepts JJ’s honesty and admires him personally.

‘Ruat calem, fiat justitia!’
Posted by: john on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 1:44pm BST

WEhere to find this ‘pretty Evangelical’ then ?

Fr Mark
10 years ago

Am I the only one to be irritated that when Anglican Mainstream publishes extreme views like those of the Vicar of Morden, “Comments are closed” always appears at the bottom of the article? Maybe “Minds are closed” would be more accurate.

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

No Mark you ‘re not alone !

Closed minds and hearts

Olivia
Olivia
10 years ago

While I have much respect for Judith Maltby and, I’m sure, would agree with her on most things, I do wish she would stop trying to play off women and gay (male) clergy. It just looks facile to this gay lay woman. While the misogyny of some elements in the Church can shock (and the institutionalisation of such misogyny is visible to all in the Act of Synod and the Archbishops’ proposed amendments to the legislation on women bishops), it pales into insignificance in comparison with the institutional homophobia. True, no woman can become a bishop at present, but no… Read more »

Straightbutnotnarrow
Straightbutnotnarrow
10 years ago

The extract of Ms Gledhill’s piece on Anglican Mainstream is a travesty of the full piece which is well worth a read although the tagging on of the resignation letter is not designed to increase clarity

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
10 years ago

Comments are ALWAYS closed over at Anglican Mainstream ….. so perhaps Fr Mark can add the word “always” somewhere in his last remark …..
Hmmmmm , now how would that read ……..?

JCF
JCF
10 years ago

“One of the leaders of the (small) conservative evangelical protesters in Southwark is the Team Rector of Morden.”

Morden: home of Mount Doom? Is the Team Rector one of the Nazgul, perchance? ;-/

john
john
10 years ago

‘My own personal perspective is, also, that I very rarely feel that my gender is an issue in church, while my sexuality almost always is, even in the open and ‘accepting’ church I attend.’

I am very sorry to hear that. Although gay people’s antennae are of course more sensitive in this matter, I do think that there are (now) many churches (and cathedrals) where this is not the case.

Perry Butler
Perry Butler
10 years ago

re Anglican Mainsream: as a Dean of Cape Town said many years ago to some advancing charismatics who were hot under the collar about something or other and waving Bibles…”open bibles, closed minds”

john
john
10 years ago

Pantyceln, Missed your query. He’s at: http://www.stgilesparish.com/Welcome.html So far as I know, he has not publicly said anything on the present occasion. What I do know, from earlier exchanges on T19 and consequent e-mails, is that this man is gracious across the board, that he has the highest personal esteem for JJ, whom he regards as completely straight (so to speak), and that he completely accepts his word on the loathsome cleibacy issue. He also knows Giddings and Sugden personally and thinks their behaviour on ‘that’ occasion was quite wrong. He’s also one of not that many Evangelicals who actually… Read more »

Andrew Innes
Andrew Innes
10 years ago

Can someone clarify something for me? Dr Chris Sugden is styled as Canon. Is he attached to a cathedral and if so, which one? Many thanks.

Pantycelyn
Pantycelyn
10 years ago

Can someone clarify something for me? Dr Chris Sugden is styled as Canon. Is he attached to a cathedral and if so, which one? Many thanks.

Posted by: Andrew Innes on Tuesday, 6 July 2010 at 3:13pm BST

I believe him to be an Hon. Canon – a recog of long service to the Church

So not a rsidentiary canon.

John Roch
John Roch
10 years ago

Not even a canon in the Church of England, apparently Canon of St Luke’s Cathedral, Jos, Nigeria His Crockford Biography SUGDEN, Canon Christopher Michael Neville. b 48. St Pet Coll Ox BA70 MA74 Nottm Univ MPhil74 Westmr Coll Ox PhD88. St Jo Coll Nottm 72. d 74 p 75. C Leeds St Geo Ripon 74-77; Assoc P Bangalore St Jo India 77-83; Lic to Offic Ox from 83; Can St Luke’s Cathl Jos Nigeria from 00; Exec Dir Ox Cen for Miss Studies 01-04; Exec Sec Angl Mainstream Internat from 04. Anglican Mainstream International, 21 High Street, Eynsham, Oxford OX29… Read more »

Andrew Innes
Andrew Innes
10 years ago

My thanks to Pantycelyn and John Roch. The reason I asked was that Giles Fraser rather pointedly referred to him as Mr Sugden in the interview and I wondered why.

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