Thinking Anglicans

Yes 2 Women Bishops conference report

The conference Women Bishops: Church in all its Fullness announced previously took place yesterday.

This page has links to both audio recordings and texts of all the main speeches.

The same text materials are also linked from this page.

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Mark BennetErika BakerCynthiawilliamLaurence Roberts Recent comment authors
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william
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william

What a great title, hence my disappointment at the 2 papers given by Stephen and Jody. I can sense the fulness of joy of each in what they have discovered and wish to share, but it seemed to one reader at least, that their persuasions lacked substance. Indeed Scripture reveals to us that what God created in His image was not just ‘man’ but a being in both male and female form – Gen 1.27. What surely has to be deduced from that diversity is that they are not the same, and not necessarily for the same functions [the male… Read more »

Helen
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Helen

Oh dear William, where have you been living? The prospect of men and women fulfilling the same or similar roles in the secular world must really distress you. How post Fall it must all seem! You at least keep yourself pure: I am sure you never do housework, change nappies, or do the cooking, but restrict yourself to fulfilling your male role in all its fulness.Perish the thought that any woman should have a career- what a disruption to the natural order! Would that we could all return back to the nineteenth century with you, but alas, even the evangelicals… Read more »

Cynthia
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Cynthia

We learned in America that “separate” is inherently “unequal.” The whole philosophy of the “differing roles of the sexes” is a construct of man, not God. God calls some women to ministry. Period. God has created male and female and gay and straight. And God said that her diverse creation is “good.” The short answer is no. There is no way to do “unequal” without inferiority/superiority. Because whoever is in the power role is going to demand their prejudiced view of what that looks like. We women, and we LGBT persons are created in the image of God, loved by… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

“The philosophy of the LGBT lobby has been very astute; if they had purely advocated debauchery in their relationships they would never have won the day in contemporary society.”

Project much, william? Kyrie eleison!

Stephen Morgan
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Stephen Morgan

‘Complementarity’ seems to be the new weasel word used by those opposed to the LGBT community and women’s ministry. ‘Debauchery’ on the other hand, is just plain offensive.

Rosie Bates
Guest

‘The philosophy of the LGBT lobby has been very astute; if they had purely advocated debauchery in their relationships they would never have won the day in contemporary society’.

William, Your outdated approach to theology is depressing – but this particular disgusting comment exhibits a degree of insulting homophobia that has no place in a serious Christian debate.

Simon Sarmiento
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Please can we focus comments strictly on the issue of women bishops, and the content of the conference talks.

Father Ron Smith
Guest

It would appear that the primary factor behind Fulcrum’s hosting of this Conference was to assure doubters that Women’s Ministry is not an essential element in the Church; but rather, an acceptable ‘add-on’ where it may be conscientiously received. Not really a serious theological appraisal.

Stephen Morgan
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Stephen Morgan

Sorry, Simon, that is not good enough. Using the word ‘debauchery’ in association with LGBT activity in the early 21st century would get any commentator rightly villified in secular society. Those of us who find such language unacceptable do not need a lecture on staying ‘on message.’

Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts

I found William’s lack of paragraphs distressing, as it prevented me from reading it.

But now having read comments upon his comment, I can see I may have saved myself some real upset.

EDITOR why not require Conservative or lunatic-fringe posters here to present their comments in Latin ?

Just askin….

Cynthia
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Cynthia

Well Simon, I’ll try to stay on topic. The first two make arguments based on complementarism. While some of the arguments, especially about inclusive language, seem strong I find it limited. And it leaves the door wide open to the homophobia we’ve seen right here. Perhaps there is truth to this philosophy, but not if limited only to male and female. It might make sense if we think in terms of all members of God’s diverse creation as having a complementary place at the table, and within the body of Christ. All races, all gender identities, even all religions. “In… Read more »

Mark Bennet
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Mark Bennet

Personally I think male and female should be equally able to respond to God’s call, and the church is unfaithful if it does not allow itself to hear that call. God has called women in the past (Deborah, amongst others). Try putting Deborah in a box of segregated but equal female functions – it doesn’t work, she was called because the men weren’t up to it – and that’s in the Bible.

Cynthia
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Cynthia

This morning, I heard about a new study. The findings are that people who have power tend to de-humanize those under them. A fact we mostly know already, but supported with research (at the University of Colorado, Boulder).

The cure is diversity and inclusion, combined with respectful listening. Fortunately, theology, this resembles the Kingdom.

william
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william

As you indicate, Cynthia, we all know that dehumanisation is practised daily – and not just by those who have power! So the image of God in the lives of His creation, both male and female, is defaced and spoiled.
Wasn’t this behind Jesus saying to those who were to be leaders in His church that they were to be servants and not lord it over one another? – setting the paradigm Himself by washing the feet of His disciples.
Is that not ‘the cure’?

Cynthia
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Cynthia

William, as someone who does a fair amount of volunteer ministry, I would definitely agree that servant ministry is part of the cure. But we are talking about polity. If we are to live in community and work out our salvation as we minister to others, there is an organization and hierarchy that comes with it. How are we to be in community together? The life of Jesus included women and had angry words against the Establishment for using the Law to exclude and demean people. This, to me, is incompatible with a hierarchy of old white men excluding women… Read more »

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

William, yes, but just calling yourself a servant doesn’t make you one.
When men declare women to be equal but different, and when that always always always translates into “I tell you what the difference is and it’s tough luck if you don’t agree”, then there is very little genuine sense of servanthood.

That is precisely not following the example of how Jesus lived.

Mark Bennet
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Mark Bennet

William – are you suggesting that men should serve women instead of lording it over them?