The Governing Body of the Church in Wales met this week in Llandudno.
The full agenda can be found here.
Earlier we published an article linking to the various documents issued for this meeting, relating to Same Sex Marriages.
The Archbishop’s Presidential Address is the subject of a press release: Quoting Bible texts does not settle moral disputes – Archbishop.
The full text of the address is available here.
This was reported by Wales Online as Church risks being seen as ‘homophobic’ if it doesn’t evolve, says Archbishop and by the BBC as Gay marriage ‘patience’ urged by Archbishop of Wales.
Another press release reports Church launches mediation service.
While I, like, I am sure, many others, welcome the Archbishop of Wales address he commits the same error as all the other well meaning Bishops. There is no ‘risk ‘ that the Church will be seen as homophobic because it ‘is’ seen as homophobic. Indeed by any measure the Chuch is homophobic because it fears and often hates lgbt people. The very use of words such as ‘welcome’ indicates that we are regarded as ‘other’, outside and not already in there and recognised as being an integral part of the Church. There can be no real advance until people… Read more »
I am sad Richard has interpreted +Barry’s message in the way he has, as that was not as it was presented in reality. Being part of one of the discussion groups, the rightful presence of LGBT people, as was all people, was recognised and valued as Christ’s continuing disciples! I took from the discussion that the CinW will not be subjecting LGBT people to the same discrimination as the C of E has decided upon.
Fr. J’s comment on this thread is re-assuring – especially to those of us who accept that the Church has, in the past, rejected any open acceptance of homosexuals as fellow children of God in the Body of Christ – or if it has, it has tolerated them, but on the basis of being ‘more sinful’ than the rest.
The Archbishop in Wales is at least ready to admit the failure of the Church, and advocates a positive outlook for the future. God bless his initiative!
Fr. J brings good news of the Governing Body. Perhaps the idea that we were not just people but that we were in the room and had been faithful lay, deacons, priests and bishops from the begining and that we could be engaged with rather than talked about, just might have helped a little for those who were not part of the discussions? Then of course there is the fact that two of the liberal leaning bishops at the gathering had been key players in the Lambeth Commision and the Windsor Report, that might help colour how those presently far… Read more »
Excellent. Have saved a screengrab of the England page at
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/uploads/acooutofdate.jpg
“I took from the discussion that the CinW will not be subjecting LGBT people to the same discrimination as the C of E has decided upon.” Oh, so LGBT people can marry on CinW churches? That’s going to spark a rush to Wrexham. Oh, they can’t…so in fact the CinW is subjecting LGBT people to _precisely_ the same discrimination as the CofE has decided upon. This is all nonsense. Churches are behaving as though homosexuality was invented in two thousand and thirteen, to paraphrase the bard of Hull. Do churches discriminate against LGBT people? Yes, they do. Have they done… Read more »
I attended the Governing Body as a visitor for a day. It amazes me how the Church in Wales has changed from a quiet conservative almost monochrome anglo-Catholic denomination into a radical liberal protestant one in vestments. It was summed up from an ecumenical visitor who spoke… he roughly said: “You are now nice to gays, nice to women and now nice to nonconformists.. I must warn the bench of bishops that they may be sleepwalking into Christianity. There was rapturous applause and laughter. The Church in Wales took further steps to reconcile with nonconformist churches and the debate on… Read more »
I thought ‘Thinking Anglicans’ consisted of people who were concerned with inclusion and an appreciation that certain legislation is established without consultation with the church. The Church in Wales had the recent legislation with regard to marriage imposed and I believe without agreement. The Archbishop is attempting to address this matter by finding our what is the mind of the Church, as had happened with the Govt’s recent consultation with regard to whether civil partnerships should be abolished, which very few people seem to know about! Which I have to say the Church in Wales provided a far better representation… Read more »
This liberal leaning blog is read by many worldwide and only a diverse few comment representing a wide spectrum of views! The Church in Wales did make a response to the Equal Marriage consultations. Rather a poor one as I remember, we discussed it here. A step too far or some such, unnecessary as gays got it all with CPs, that sort of thing …. http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/005815.html Subsequently there was a whole raft of meetings between representatives of the CinW and ministers and those drafting the legislation. Contrary to what you say Fr. Jon the unique provision introduced into law by… Read more »
I think it is not correct to say that the legislation with regard to marriage was imposed on the Church in Wales without its agreement. The legislation places no burdens on the Church in Wales whatever as they are excluded from marrying same sex couples as per their wish and express request. Should the Governing Body believe that they should be allowed to conduct such marriages there is a legal mechanism set out in section 8 for them to do so which seems fairly straightforwards. Again the Church in Wales indicated they were content with section 8, only requesting that… Read more »
Craig refers to an entertaining performance from the bishop of Swansea & Brecon. He is sadly correct, some of the performances from Christians before that Committee were lamentable. It’s also worth noting that the CinW is ill prepared to deal with responses to legislation that deserves its attention. It’s staff at Cathedral Road in Cardiff are just not resourced to respond appropriately when a Bill is proposed. I see that someone has been doing overtime and fixed the entry for Canterbury mentioned above. It’s worth reflecting that the ACO, Lambeth Palace and Church House have communications teams who are all… Read more »
Thanks Martin… I stand by my account.
It would indeed be great if the Church in Wales were as truly inclusive as it claims to be. But you can’t expect us to take an Archbishop seriously when his pro-gay media grandstanding is contradicted by his behaviour towards gay clergy and lay people behind the scenes. Nor can we take it seriously when the Archdeacon of Llandaff declares that people who cannot agree with her theology on women in the ordained ministry have no place in the Church in Wales. As the saintly Welsh Bishop, John D Davies, recently wrote, if there’s no room for my detractors in… Read more »
James, Barry is not completely an evil two faced monster! In his own way he is urbane and charming and as genuine as he thinks circumstances allow. But I think you misread Peggy the archdeacon. As I understand her she wants an ABSOLUTE ring fence for those who are presently left with a Church that practices what they do not believe. But that this absolute protection should be of a individual, not a group, and that the absolute protection should not apply to anyone confirmed now. That does not mean however that anyone confirmed now MUST believe women can be… Read more »
Sorry if I’ve touched a nerve, Martin, but I’m just thinking of the day I met up with the late Jim Cotter, back in 2008, when Barry Morgan had written him a stiff legally-worded letter, threatening to take him to a disciplinary tribunal after he had blessed a civil partnership in Aberdaron. The letter was neither urbane nor charming.
I was deeply sad to hear from Richard Kirker that Jim had died.
So many were helped by him in prayer and adoration.
No nerves touched, James. I remember the letter well.