Thinking Anglicans

General Synod – Monday's business

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Harriet Sherwood The Guardian Donating organs and blood is Christian duty, C of E synod to be told

Today’s business

Order paper 1

Questions paper

Live video stream

Full text of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s presidential address: Archbishop reflects on Primates’ meeting in Synod address

Official summary of the day’s business: General Synod February 16 sessions: Monday PM

Audio from all the sessions at General Synod February 2016

Press reports

Antony Bushfield Premier Synod’s sexuality conversations “going to be risky”

Harry Farley Christian Today Welby at Synod: Primates meeting was ‘spun more than Donald Trump’
African churches could face ‘consequences’ for supporting criminalisation of homosexuality

Harriet Sherwood The Guardian Gay rights and same-sex marriage will dominate C of E summer synod

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MarkBrunsonJCFJames ByronJeremySimon Kershaw Recent comment authors
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Jeremy
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Jeremy

Archbishop, do you take us for fools?

The Archbishop of Uganda left on Tuesday. We know that.

Just tell us whether the other GAFCON primates who left departed before the foot washing, or after.

Then we will know what to make of this meeting.

MarkBrunson
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MarkBrunson

LGBTI campaigner Jayne Ozanne asked Mr Porter: “What involvement at a panel level will LGBTI have in these conversations?

“It is terribly important that we listen to all involved. We need to ensure that we’re hearing from real people and not just talking about them.”

Haaaaahahahahahaha!

No, really.

Christina Beardsley
Guest
Christina Beardsley

In response to Question 16 ‘Gender Fluidity and Transgender issues’,the Bishop of Coventry only mentions ‘Some issues’ and the forthcoming General Synod debate of the Blackburn motion. However, the House of Bishops reached a decision on this matter in 2003. This decision, which is still not widely known, states that, among the range of views in the Church about transsexualism, two positions ‘could properly be held’. One was that ‘some Christians concluded on the basis of Scripture and Christian anthropology that … ‘gender reassignment’ and ‘sex change’ were really a fiction’, and the second was that ‘others were persuaded’ in… Read more »

Malcolm Dixon
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Malcolm Dixon

Never mind the consequences – feel the sincerity! ++Justin holds the same line that he did in the press conference after the Primates meeting – the ‘consequences’ follow inevitably from TEC’s action as surely as night follows day, as if it was a law of nature and the Primates were only reminding us of it. This, I am sorry to have to say, is nonsense. We are told that all the Primates washed each other’s feet during the final Eucharist. Does this mean ALL, or only all those who were present? It must be the latter, for we already know… Read more »

S Cooper
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S Cooper

Malcolm Dixon – after years of evidence, even under rowan Williams, why do you expect anything …. Time for tec(UK)

John Holding
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John Holding

S. Cooper: Time for tec(UK)

tec (Eng) surely, as Scotland, Wales and Ireland are not involved with what the ABC and the CofE are up to.

But then, why not (equally) ACC (Eng), just for one alternative — it’s not as if tec was the only player on its side in this particular game.

Malcolm Dixon
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Malcolm Dixon

Easy to say, S Cooper, but much less easy to do. I would not want the CofE to be forced into the sort of litigious environment that has developed between TEC and ACNA in the USA.

I concede, reluctantly, that it is probably unwise to expect anything different under current leadership, but we can always hope, and pray!

MarkBrunson
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MarkBrunson

I think TEC is a better term, with the national abbreviation following, because TEC simply means “The Episcopal Church.” It shouldn’t be allowed to become another exercise in Empire with a new Archbishop of Washington, or New York, or wherever doing a power-grab and spinning it as humility.

Not ACC(UK), not TECUSA mission in UK, but The Episcopal Church of England (or what they will, as it is their church in partnership with, not subject to, ours).

No more playing at Rome.

Father David
Guest
Father David

Thirty Nine years to the day since Janani Luwum was martyred in 1977 by Idi Amin, the self proclaimed “Last King of Scotland”. Now, there was a great Archbishop of Uganda, worthy of his statue being placed on the west front of Westminster Abbey and a sterling Witness for Christ.

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

TEC(UK) would not solve anything at all.
It would be a nice alternative for a few hundred people in large cities.

I want the CoE to change so that we can all benefit from it.

Susannah Clark
Guest

Totally agree with Erika. If LGBTI members of the Church of England depart to a putative TEC (UK)… well the Church of England is not going away, it is still going to be serving community after community across England, often in precious and valuable ways, and frankly the LGBTI case will be weakened if people just leave the Church of England. What is needed is not schism and division into smaller and smaller sects, but the courage and grace to be a Church where we love one another even in all our differences, and respect the wide-ranging views and values… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Guest

However, I see that as surrender. In a sense, then the LGBTI-critical voices in the Church of England ‘win’ and we all go away to our own thing. Instead, I believe, if people truly want change in the Church of England, then the last thing we should do is go away. This is probably like the case for women priests all over again, but forty years on. People endured, people refused to give up, people stayed, serving in community, serving (alongside others with other views) the communities around them. I favour actions and networks *within* the Church to expedite the… Read more »

James Byron
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James Byron

Agreed, Erica. TEC has its own domestic issues to deal with, without getting mired in border crossing. It’s a church for America, not England, or anywhere else. Besides, you can’t import equality. If English Anglicans want lesbian and gay sisters and brothers in Christ to be treated equally, make change happen: vote pro-affirming candidates onto General Synod and change CoE policy; lobby, lobby, lobby; ignore unjust rulings; and for God’s sake, stop paying money into the coffers of homophobic dioceses. No one came to TEC’s rescue: its members fought for change. The way to bring change to other provinces is… Read more »

Simon Kershaw
Admin

Erika: exactly so. Schism is rarely a good idea. The Church of England needs to act as the Church of England. The two-letter word in the middle is important. Another tiny splinter sect is not a great example of mission.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

I agree with James Byron’s larger point. But I must disagree with the notion that TEC is “a church for America, not England, or anywhere else.” In fact, TEC is a church “for” many nations. TEC Province II includes the Convocation of Episcopal Churches in Europe, and also Haiti. TEC Province VIII includes Micronesia and Taiwan. TEC Province IX includes Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Central Ecuador, Litoral Ecuador, Honduras, Puerto Rico, and Venezuela. Mexico and Philippines amicably decided to become independent. Others may do the same. But as it now stands, TEC is for many nations and continents. To me… Read more »

James Byron
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James Byron

I thank Jeremy for that important correction: I allowed rhetorical simplicity to cloud the facts, my bad. SFAIK, in none of those cases are there competing Anglican provinces on the same territory. (The CoE also has a branch for Europe, mainly, like TEC, for ex-pats.) Nor did TEC rock up and plant churches ’cause local Anglicans didn’t like the theology of their current province. Doing so would be like the Federal govt. (which, outside the states, also has several incorporated and unincorporated territories) declaring neighborhoods across Britain to be U.S. protectorates! Still, with negotiation, it may be possible for TEC… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“The [Jan 2016 Primates] gathering voted to impose de facto sanctions – or “consequences” in the preferred lexicon of the church – on the US episcopal church which approved same-sex marriage last year. But… Welby said that churches within the Anglican communion that backed the criminalisation of homosexuality could also face consequences at the next formal meeting of primates in 2020.” The priorities here (can’t have same-sex couples in TEC marry un-“consequented”!—while LGBT people elsewhere in the AC continue to be legally punished, cheered on by their Anglican churches, for another **4 years**) say everything one needs to know about… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

TEC in the U. S. is not a church for anywhere else. TEC – The Episcopal Church – is a church for anyone that wants the episcopal model of church. The Episcopal Church of England would be fine for England. The Episcopal Church of Ireland would be fine for Ireland. The Episcopal Church of Spain, Sweden, France, European Union, Uganda, Jerusalem, wherever is fine.

Stop trying to make a one-world-one-size-fits-all empire and pretending that that is what God ever intended!