Daniel French The Spectator How Sarah Mullally can fix the Church of England
Paul Sutton The Critic The conservative case for Sarah Mullally
Luke Coppen The Pillar Will the new Archbishop of Canterbury impact Anglican-Catholic ties?
The Church of Scotland Church Moderator and Principal Clerk send congratulations to the next Archbishop of Canterbury
The Episcopal Church Presiding Bishop Sean Rowe congratulates new Archbishop of Canterbury
Donna Birrell Premier Christian News Abuse survivors ‘disappointed’ at Sarah Mullally’s appointment as Archbishop
Stephen Parsons Surviving Church What does the nomination of Bishop Mullally to Canterbury say about the Church of England?
Ian Paul Psephizo What challenges face Sarah Mullally as the new archbishop?
Theo Hobson Hail Sarah
Martine Oborne The Guardian The next archbishop of Canterbury has no time to waste in making change – this is what she will be up against
The Guardian Editorial The Guardian view on the first female archbishop of Canterbury: a choice that offers renewal and hope
Tim Wyatt New Statesman The first female Archbishop of Canterbury is a lifelong trailblazer
Ruth Peacock Religion Media Centre Sarah Mullaly smashed through ‘stained glass ceiling’ to become the next Archbishop of Canterbury
This is as good a place to ask as any. Much reference has been made on the previous threads about this appointment to the Fr Alan Griffin case. I’ve now read the “lessons learned” review, and as a student of such things it appears well-written and carefully considered. I don’t know much else about the case. My understanding is as follows. Mullally’s predecessor appointed, under circumstances unclear, someone to a rather vague role as “Head of Operations”. Mullally took over as bishop and, very shortly afterwards, the head of operations tendered their resignation. She, not unreasonably given the fact that… Read more »
Don’t think of a career in PR.
Coroner’s report here
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Alan-Griffin-2021-0243-Church-of-England-Published.pdf
I’ve read that. It’s the Section 28 query to Justin Welby, and makes no mention of the Bishop of London. The response isn’t great, in that it’s waffly and vague, and as it’s signed by inter alia Bishop Mullally (as she then was) you can criticise her for that. But criticising people for being the joint signatory of a document obviously written by a committee is too easy: no-one who works in consensus governance environments can escape involvement in compromises. For what it’s worth, the response by the Catholic Safeguarding Standards Agency is shorter, but otherwise no better. You can… Read more »
Thank you for this Simon. I also wonder whether Interested Observer had read Simon Parson’s article before writing his comment?. I also wonder, Interested Observer, whether you knew that the Head of Operations, at least according to Tim Wyatt in an article last year, is none other than Martin Sergeant who is currently serving time for swindling the London Diocese out of millions? In my view this puts rather a different complexion on his possible motives when making his ‘brain dump’. Also who in the subsequent shambolic ‘enquiries’ knew anything about the upcoming fraud investigation? Did this effect the rigour… Read more »
I didn’t realise the identity of the Head of Operations, and upon searching for more details I come on this fascinating thread, in which I play a small part.
It makes it more of a mess than I thought. Thanks for pointing that out.
The leadership test here was what to do with the ‘rotating cast’, the archdeacon, and the safeguarding culture after this tragedy.
Absolutely right. Bishop Mullally had the option of initiating disciplinary proceedings against the Archdeacon (and others) and did not. As Bishop she was also ultimately responsible for Diocesan responses more widely, even if any direct actions taken on the ground were not hers, ranging from PR through to initiating cultural change. To my knowledge, those things were (and may still be) lacking. As I wrote on a previous thread, I give her considerable credit for addressing the Martin Sargeant issue – a situation entirely of her predecessor’s making, in my view. But she did not then go on to handle… Read more »
Bishop Sarah undoubtedly deserves credit for recognising that something was amiss with the Head of Operations and his way of operating, and seeking some accountability. However, once he had decided to leave, the process of managing his departure was badly handled. I will never understand why, during all those hours of interviews, no-one thought to ask why they were being presented with a mix of gossip, speculation and innuendo. Nor will I ever understand why someone as famously concerned with process as Bishop Sarah was content to preside over such a shambolic process as that which dealt with Fr Griffin.… Read more »
Well said, Father. In my view, the Archdeacon of London should not still be the Archdeacon of London.
Below is the short email from the Canadian Primate to the new ABC. The Guardian editorial seems to hit all the right notes: “Dame Sarah has been a powerful advocate for the rights of women in the Anglican church…”; ” An institutional inability to fully embrace the validity of same-sex love continues to leave Anglicans out of step with the nation they seek to serve spiritually.”; “the Church of England still has a vital role to play. As the far right co-opts the symbols of Christianity to promote hostility and intimidation…” Mullaly’s previous reference to an Emily Dickinson metaphor was a good… Read more »
I hope the Church of England will now move on from its obsession with ‘novelty’. How long can the breathless ‘first ever…’ mentality continue? This is a secular obsession and one which any Christian body should distance itself from. What seems exciting and new one moment is always tired and ‘old hat’ the next. All Christian communities need to take the findings of the ‘Quiet Revival’ seriously. Whatever the statistics involved, it is increasingly obvious that the next generation of believers want something different; depth of spirituality, prayer, holiness, tradition. Not endless political banner waving from the boomer generation. That… Read more »
You are the one who sees this appointment as novelty and not spirituality and holiness.Of course there are people who will make a point about gender, but surely the new Archbishop is more than a novelty. She has been a bishop for many years in a senior position. Your attempt to trivialize her appointment does take seriously her gifts, her faith, and her commitment. She deserves respect. She is more than a carnival exhibit.
Just to be clear, my comment was not an attack on Archbishop Sarah nor an attempt to trivialize her appointment. I do respect her. My frustration is with a general mentality that seems far more comfortable promoting progressive, left of centre politics than with the call to holiness.
I am uncomfortable with your seeming to make “promoting progressive, left of centre politics” and “call[ing] to holiness” mutually exclusive.
One’s about politics the other is about religion. Different drum beat.
I think that this appointment stands for renewal rather than novelty
Something new? A novelty!
‘O Beauty ever ancient ever new’ – different from novelty I think.
AMEN.
Move on from the obsession with novelty because … something new is needed?
“Not endless political banner waving from the boomer generation.” You mean this kind of banner waving from the current boomer pope?
https://www.ncronline.org/vatican/vatican-news/one-cant-serve-god-and-money-pope-says-day-he-signs-text-poverty
https://www.finestresullarte.info/en/news/pope-leo-xiv-blesses-block-of-ice-brought-to-rome-by-olafur-eliasson
https://www.usccb.org/news/2025/proclaiming-gospel-includes-welcoming-migrants-pope-says-jubilee
https://www.npr.org/2025/08/03/nx-s1-5491475/pope-leo-tells-1-million-catholic-youths-they-are-sign-different-world-is-possible
“In his closing blessing for the Jubilee of Youth, Leo remembered the young people of Gaza and Ukraine and other countries “bloodied by war” who could not join their celebration.”
Thank you Ruairidh for this timely reminder of what the Church actively needs to be about. We are in a desperate situation in terms of global terror and war. But some Anglicans in the Global South think that the most crucial issue at this time is whether people of the same sex who are in a faithful relationship might be intimate? That is the only thing that they want to base their decision about church membership on? If that is the reality of what some are terming the new Anglican Communion then every thinking Anglican should resist it and I… Read more »
Well, and it is not just some bishops in the ‘Global’ South who are at issue but the the limited perspective on The Communion by the boys in your province and mine for whom they are a convenient one trick pony proxy voice. I’ve attached a link to our longstanding Canadian Programme, Alongside Hope ( formerly called The Primate’s World Relief and Development Fund, the new name name adverts to its long standing emphasis on genuine global partnership). Sitting up straight and listening to bishops pontificate is not the best indicator of ‘communion’. Bishops Listening and the whole people of… Read more »
Thanks so much for the link Ruairidh and what a fascinating programme and that is the kind of global thing Anglicans should be doing – not uniting based on one thing and one thing only. Very hopeful. +Sarah is definitely someone who listens. And that kind of thing is dear to her heart. I love what you say here: “Sitting up straight and listening to bishops pontificate is not the best indicator of ‘communion’. Bishops Listening and the whole people of God partnering are preferable.” I don’t know what kind of structures some of the GSFS provinces have for decision… Read more »
Pretty sure most of those so-alarmed (wherever they may be) would prefer those of the same sex NOT to be in a faithful (i.e., monogamous) relationship (that’s before you even get to physical intimacy).
Many Anglicans in the global south have very direct experience of the desperate state of world affairs.
The Church of Uganda has many martyrs, including within the last 50 years. Uganda has troops in Somalia, South Sudan and DR Congo. Its GDP per head is one thirtieth that in Britain. 11% of Uganda children have known one of their parent die. 3% have neither parent alive, and as recently as 2002 that figure was 20%. They deserve to be listened to.
Absolutely so. You make my point for me. They need to be listened to.
Which makes it even more sad that they simply focus on one issue as defining who they can and can not be in Communion with, and who they can and can’t accept as the Archbishop of Canterbury
They run all sorts of programmes to alleviate poverty, improve education and preach the good news of the kingdom of God. I took far too long to conclude that done well, equal marriage will likely be a good extension of historic Christian ethics. And maybe some people haven’t got there yet and will take more time, perhaps a lot more time. But they also have seen things I haven’t, and have worked for the kingdom in ways I haven’t. If we can find a way to listen to each other across the divides, we can build something bigger and better… Read more »
Since when is “novelty” unBiblical?
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. (Isaiah 43:19)
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” (Revelation 21:5)
I would say that the word translated as ‘new’ here refers to renewal rather than novelty.
Does anybody outside of his circle of friends read Ian Paul’s self-affirming commentary on everything? His own church has disassociated itself from his views. See their web site. What a bore!
That raised a chuckle in the Cunnington/Pemberton household – and that ‘Blogger of the Year 2017’ award is starting to look like a peeling ‘Pub of the Year’ window sticker!
Link please? Thanks
https://stnics.org/team and scroll down to end
Thank you – did not scroll in the right section. That feels very significant.
That’s just a general disclaimer. They occur everywhere. Examples:
“Earlier this week, Temple University was thrust into the media spotlight after the remarks of one of our faculty, Marc Lamont Hill, during the United Nations International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. Let me be clear: Professor Hill does not represent Temple University, and his views are his own. Further, Professor Hill’s right to express his opinion is protected by the Constitution to the same extent as any other private citizen.”
“Cardinal Pell’s views on climate change are his own”
And many more if you look.
320 comments on a recent post about the new Archbishop, so I guess there’s a few readers. Plus the fact you don’t see the need to explain who Ian Paul is to anyone on this blog, so there must be plenty of TA-ers who read him too. Along with TA its the only Christian blog I read regularly.
Perhaps you can point us all to your blog so we can see how fascinating you are by comparison?
320 comments, yes.But unfortunately when Ian puts up a piece on a ” hot button ” issue the comments descend into arguments ( often rather unpleasant) between about six or so people who comment frequently.
Yes, I agree. I greatly dislike it, and regularly ask people to take snide and point-scoring comments offline. I wonder if TA moderators do the same…?
Yes we do. We try to strike a balance between allowing free discussion, and not allowing things to get too snide. For comments on public figures we probably err towards the former. But not every comment received is approved, and we do sometimes ask that a particular line of commenting cease — indeed that happened only yesterday.
Ian Paul’s blog certainly has some very bizarre comments, and very lengthy list of comments.
My main reaction is – what does an outsider think of all this? Has the ship not sailed a long time ago (role of women)? In all other walks of life, in the UK at least, we are used to having women in positions of authority, much higher authority (hire and fire) than bishops.
It’s about time the church overcame these obsessions, and we can tease each other in good and rumbustious (Holy) spirit.
“Plus the fact you don’t see the need to explain who Ian Paul is to anyone on this blog..” Not exactly…but don’t go into detail. I think I’m good. lol. lol.
David, I think the point is that I do not have a blog and I was not trying to be in the least fascinating. If we begin to assess the relevance of a person by the number of visitors to a blog we are in deep trouble. You are obviously a Pauline scholar.
I was greatly encouraged by this comment! 32,000 people read my post on the demographic challenge to the Church, and so far 10,000 have read this post on Sarah Mullally.
With such a ‘small circle of friends’ I feel greatly supported! The comment on my church website is simply to note that I have a wider ministry than the Church and don’t specifically speak for the leadership there—which I don’t.
Sorry to be such a bore; I will try and be more controversial in future!
every blessing!
I imagine it’s the 10 people who log in 1000 times a day. Ian, this comments section is moderated. That’s all you need to do to prevent the unpleasantness on your blog. One of the comments about Sarah has reached an all time low. I drew your attention to it yesterday and you have done nothing about it. The language used is appalling. And yes, I am one of those who comments regularly. The place is an extreme conservative echo chamber and I feel a strong duty to present some kind of balance, however hard it is. What I have… Read more »
The Ian Paul blog on psephizo.com attracts a vanishingly small number of like-minded people who all seem to log in to all the posts and make predictable and repetitive comments. It is a classic echo chamber where all beliefs coincide and are reinforced. Some brave folk like you challenge regularly. I venture in very occasionally, so I am not totally immune, but, as one of a growing number of affirming evangelicals, am clearly not welcome. I thought the reference to +Rachel Treweek was particularly mean-spirited, discriminatory and otherwise unnecessary, ultimately hinging on her gender. Of course, other media have taken the… Read more »
What an odd comment Anthony. How is 32,000 views ‘vanishingly small’? And in what sense are you ‘not welcome’? You made a positive comment on that blog post, and I thanked you for it, and engaged. What was ‘unwelcome’ about that?
Some of the comments on Psephizo are indeed bizarre and unpleasant, and, yes, they usually come from the same handful of people. But comment threads on this blog also fill up with a lot of repetitive stuff from the usual suspects – I suspect that the medium of blog comment sections may be inherently unhealthy.
Yes.
It’s more than that isn’t it Ian. “Our congregation is a mix of many cultures and people who, while focused and united around the Christian gospel, will differ in their opinions on many issues.” They are making the point, for whatever reason, that the church (in which you are a welcome and respected member) is a diverse community and not all share your particular views. They have felt it important to affirm the inclusive character of their community, have they not?
Trying to restore some balance in an echo chamber is challenging to say the least.
Sorry – do not understand this. St Nic’s is an echo chamber?
Relates to the post above, sorry. I think that is what is being said, but on the subject of balance how about a link to the statement from The Alliance TA?
I am not ‘a member’, David. I am Associate Minister there. I preach and lead services regularly. But in my blog, I don’t speak for the church, since I am writing in a personal capacity. There is nothing very unusual about that.
Greetings Ian. As you wish. I think of membership as speaking of our belonging, Associate Minister, for you, is a role within where you belonging. As to your blog and the work of moderating – like TA – I am in no doubt is hard to keep up something on there scale of yours. You may have missed some rather extreme comments about ++Sarah by someone called Jeannie. I hope that is a help to say.
I don’t moderate the comments. I ask people to be responsible. Sadly, many are not. From time to time I intervene. But curious that some in this thread only a tiny circle read, but for others the scale is hard to manage! 😀
Actually it’s Ian’s church that refers to him as a member….
“Rev Dr Ian Paul is a member of our church congregation…..etc…”
It seems so odd that conservatives are proclaiming that her appointment is a major issue and that Anglicans may now swim the Tiber more than ever, etc, etc. Anyone who feels that strongly has already made that decision based on the fact that there have been Anglican women bishops for many years. But the idea that this appointment will suddenly cause a cataclysm is silliness. Do they think that those opposing women’s ordination have simply tolerated or ignored this reality and that Canterbury is the only appointment that counts? Rather strange theology. And there have been women Primates in Canada… Read more »
The weirdest thing in the commentary is that it looks mostly (see eg Theo Hobson’s Spectator article) like some liberals arguing that this is ‘what conservatives will now do’, coupled to some conservatives outside the CofE (possibly having swum earlier) saying the same thing – which feels frankly like both camps indulging in wish-fulfilment to suit their own respective standpoints.
Actual conservative voices *within* the CofE (eg FiF), are not making those noises at all in anything like big numbers that I’ve seen. I completely agree with you.
Indeed, FiF seem pretty confident that the promises and protections they have already won for themselves are watertight.
My dad, who was opposed to the ordination of women, was sometimes asked why he did not become a Roman Catholic. He replied ‘Because the things I disagreed with in Roman Catholicism yesterday, I still disagree with today. The ordination of women hasn’t made those things go away.’
From any objective distance, the willingness of members of the Church of England to endlessly and vigorously attack and belittle their own Church is both sad and strange. Yet it continues nonstop here and in other places as it has for eons. They whine and complain about every fault and flaw, proclaiming anew every morning the demise and death of the C of E, and then wonder why the Church is not full of growth and enthusiasm. Why would anyone want to join this circle of curmudgeons? Bitterness and negativity may provide the with a sense of purpose or may… Read more »
Fair point – TA can appear to be a catalogue of complaints. But what of those who have given of themselves daily in order to build up the Body of Christ, sometimes for many years, and then have been badly abused or otherwise damaged by this wonderfully rosy denomination of which you write and its representatives? Do you think, as you look down on us from the privileged position of still having unbridled joy in your faith, we might just be permitted to see the Church of England through a lens I hope you will never have, one that we… Read more »
Ian Paul concludes his blog: “I strongly suspect that Sarah’s time will be marked by very little dramatic happening—which we could do with. And in six years’ time, it could be that every senior bishopric in the C of E is occupied by evangelicals—a completely unintended result of Justin’s mostly liberal appointments. So exciting times could be ahead, but not for some while yet.” The word ‘Evangelicals’ does not describe a group within the Church of England that has a common mind on theology, teaching and practice as Ian seems to assume (but knows perfectly well isn’t true. Evangelicals in… Read more »
https://firstthings.com/sarah-mullally-and-reforming-the-anglican-communion/
For many, what is wanted is a Communion.
Not a federation.
Not a set of provinces out of communion with each other (the de facto reality).
Others will be content with other options.
Predictable stuff from Mouneer saying nothing new.
What seems to be ignored is that at ACC19 next year the big focus will be discussing and considering The Nairobi-Cairo Proposals, developed by IASCUFO. That is the route for discussing any change in the Anglican Communion as presently constituted. A Covenant devised by one part of the Communion is a side show.
Importantly in the proposals coming to ACC19 “The personal and pastoral role of the Archbishop of Canterbury remains unchanged in the Communion, but the proposals do suggest a wider sharing of responsibilities.”
This is the point I was trying to make, Andrew. The empire is over. The rest of the world is not a sideshow.
And I am not implying in any way that the rest of the world is a sideshow. The side show is a proposed covenant that wants to exclude people simply on one issue alone. Edwin Markham put it like this
“He drew a circle that shut me out-Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.But love and I had the wit to win:We drew a circle and took him In!”
You cite an article by someone theologically trained at Moore College Sydney! Its link with Anglicanism is somewhat remote.
And also at Nashotah House. Are you going to cast aspersions on its link with Anglicanism too?
He may have changed his religion after he left Sydney.
Is Heythrop College any better?
Hardly. It’s closed.
It was a very good theological college with high standards – a friend who attended there and Cambridge rated it much higher than the latter.
That’s good to hear. Sarah Mullaly apparently received her MA in theology from there so more qualified than Welby.
Sadly. Moore College remains open to spread its gibberish.
Not really addressing you, Anglican Priest, but joining onto the end of this thread! (thus perhaps echoing points made above, which I have read. I have just been listening to the podcast associated with the Radio 4 programme ‘When it hits the fan’: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002kgmp After a lengthy item about the dis-graced baroness Mone and her ‘PR’ regarding the PPE ‘fast lane’, follows a low key item about the low key PR for the country’s FIRST female Archbishop of Canterbury. Even the election of the 266th (?) Pope (the 16th Pope Leo) achieved better publicity. So much for how many contributions… Read more »
Was the podcast suggesting that the long slow appointment of our new first female ABCD equated to something hitting the fan???
I believe that Messrs Lewis and Yelland, from their experiences in communication, find the recruitment/ ‘discernment’ processes of the national Church somewhat ‘Byzantine’ (my choice of word), and the communication of the good news of the result of the selection process to have been somwhat lacking in ‘oomph’ and impact- an opportunity missed to show new life in the church of today, and I sensed a sadness in that. A measure of how much lack of interest there is outside the church. Perhaps the programmes title is thought to be a way of ‘connecting’ with people in their language rather… Read more »
It may help, as she embraces her role, if she engages with the general population by describing her father’s career and her own early career choices.
Somehow the barriers need to be broken down.
I was fascinated by Welby’s early experiences, as I slept in the same bed as him (at the same school in Kenya, Kiburu secondary school, but not at the same time). Eton/Cambridge may have been seen as remote to many.
I won’t mention the career, as it seems to be a catalyst.
Please define “Communion” in this context.
The word communion is what’s on the tin. Sharing eucharistic fellowship and mission.
Did you have a meaning of communion you want to share?
Christopher out of curiosity when you spend time living in France and attending the local Roman Catholic Church are you welcome to share in Eucharistic fellowship? I know that others from an Anglican background have found that hospitality.
I work all over France with French Affaires, so it depends on where I am. I am leading an 8 day retreat with Cistercians at St Honorat, Segries and Senanque (Provence). Every situation is different. In Courances, where my wife and I lived in a Catholic Rectory, the priest was a close friend of my wife, who was dying of LAM disease. The parish was extremely supportive. She was baptized Catholic. Her life was saved by a lung transplant in Paris in 2017. The chaplaincy there was critical to her spiritual condition. You asked a personal question, which tends to… Read more »
Christopher it is not a personal question at all. It is about Eucharistic hospitality and communion. Which was a topic your brought up. But if you don’t wish to answer it, then so be it.
I did.
Christopher,
I am sorry to hear of your bereavement during Covid. I wish you every blessing and consolation.
Kind regards
Peter
Peter, thank you. Christopher Seitz
Allow me to ask you a personal question, as I understand you are a retired priest in the CofE.
Do you believe the sharp decline, aging, property maintenance can be turned around?
Will the CofE effectively ‘age out’ inside a decade?
How will the factional/party character of CoE weather this decline? The churches that are presently thriving are in your ‘evangelical’ wing. Is this where the future lies?
A retired Priest in the CofE is just one of the things I am. Also a retired Sound Engineer and former Radio Studio Manager with the BBC. Former member of General Synod. And other things….. I’m not however a prophet. But can discern something of the signs of the times. I think unless the CofE can sort out, once and for all, the stupid argument that has given rise to LLF, then it is very much doomed to further decline. Everybody is tired of it. It was much easier for gay clergy and members of the congregation 40 years ago… Read more »
If that is the definition then I have, in my lifetime, been in communion with Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, members of the United Church of Christ and, yes, even Roman Catholics.
Good for you!
(Roman Catholics might offer you Eucharistic hospitality but they are not in communion with Anglicans, whose orders and hence Eucharistic theology are regarded as irregular).
I perceive “communion” as the sharing of consecrated bread and wine; you clearly define it as a matter of orders and theology. (BTW, my sister and brother-in-law, both RC, have received communion in Episcopal churches, when attending my sons’ baptisms.)
TA is often good for the mind, but rarely for the soul. I am constantly dismayed by the relentless tribalism of .. evangelical this, liberal that, catholic the other.. and every revisionist and reductionist version of all of those. I think +Sarah transcends those with grace. I don’t think she is going to set the church alight (thats not her job – leave that to the Holy Spirit), but I think and pray that she will use all her gifts and experiences to bring healing to a hurting and broken church. If she was Pope.. I hope she would take… Read more »
There is a legendary Monty Python sketch that comes to mind.
The black knight duels with an enemy and is very much the loser in the sword fight that follows.
He finds himself minus both legs and both arms and his opponent insists he surrenders. The black knight will have none of it.
“Tis only a flesh wound” is his defence.
Those who insist the global repudiation of Sarah Mullaly as a spiritual leader is of no account are as delusional as the black knight.
It is perhaps not a news item on par with the C of E appointing the first female ABC; but there is a dimension of synchronicity in the appointment of Sarah Mallally with this announcement that the Anglican Church of Canada has a new General Secretary, the chief operating officer, and for the first time it is a woman, and equally notable, a first for a layperson—Andrea Mann has been serving as Global Relations Director. (Of course, the previous Primate was a woman.) Like Mallally, Mann inherits difficult issues that require remediation. Digest from the article (link): “It is a… Read more »
There is a bit too much straining on a gnat regarding Ian Paul and his church. Ian has given a perfectly straightforward explanation as to his role and involvement there. It should be accepted as such. His blog has a lot of interesting material across a wide range of topics. I think some of the people who post on his comments section are extremely odd individuals and if it was my blog I would close down the comments section. (I have, myself, been on the receiving end of deplorable behaviour from people who comment on his site). However, it is… Read more »
I occasionally comment here and have been deeply offended by some people’s responses. Disagreement is not a bar to good manners. Freedom of speech ought to be subject to that caveat. The Defamation Act 2013 in some ways watered down the law of libel (or rather re-defined the defences to libel) and provides a measure of protection to blog owners in respect of potentially defamatory contributions by readers. It’s entirely understandable to me that TA moderates users’ comments before publishing them and, in fact, I feel TA takes a generous view in what it allows!
Hi Rowland,
I entirely share your sentiments. I think TA is far better for being moderated – though some rough comment does still get through.
I’m no acolyte of Ian Paul. My point was not to blindly defend him.
I think the gospel needs freedom of speech and that means putting up with a lot of reprehensible comment of which there plenty around .
Rowland: There are times when I, as a somewhat iconoclastic Canadian Anglican in a non-established church, make observations about the pomp and circumstance in the Church of England. Most of the time, this is because I have a hard time squaring these things with the Jesus of the gospels. I’m known for expressing similar view in my own diocese too. Your response, frequently, is to explain to me the history and tradition behind these things. In most cases, this is information I’ve known for years, as an Anglican priest who was raised in C of E rectories. My problem is… Read more »
My own views on pomp and circumstance may be extrapolated! My father used to say the CoE can put on a great procession. Men wearing ornate dresses has always amused me, and no doubt women in ornate dresses will also amuse.
The Christian I most admired was a priest/doctor in a remote village in Kenya, did 5 surgeries before breakfast, after presiding at Eucharist the previous evening 50 miles away. I don’t think he wore dresses.
Did Jesus wear a dress or a nice suit with trousers?
Levi’s surely.
What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.
So should all bishops dress in camel’s hair then? The greek word for ‘fine clothes’ – malakoi – usually means excessive, extravagant self indulgence. That is not the same as dressing, or robing, out of respect for, and to honour, or express through sacramental drama, that which we worship and serve. I am puzzled by the negativity of this discussion. and the assumption that when bishops wear robes it is all about their own self importance. On most other occasions on TA it is clergy in casual clothing in church that gets criticised.
Don’t mention hair. I mentioned hair once, but I think I got away with it.
I was thinking more of the extravagant dresses, not the common or garden dresses. I used the word ‘ornate’.
I’m actually not sure how this discussion shifted to episcopal robes.
Jesus was a Capricorn, father. lol
https://youtu.be/frVK05b8r5s
lovely song. I hadn’t heard it before. I’m a capricorn.
Fun fact: Kris Kristofferson was a Rhodes scholar: Kristofferson, who could recite English poet William Blake from memory, wove intricate folk music lyrics about loneliness and tender romance into popular country music. With his long hair and bell-bottomed slacks and counterculture songs influenced by Bob Dylan, he represented a new breed of country songwriters along with such peers as Willie Nelson, John Prine and Tom T. Hall. He was a Golden Gloves boxer and football player in college, received a master’s degree in English from Merton College at the University of Oxford in England and turned down an appointment to… Read more »
That’s all very well, but did he wear vestments?
No, because he was a layman, without the hereditary status required for the priesthood. But in any vision of Jesus as great High Priest he will be wearing the vestments of that office
All these replies seem to be getting a bit mixed up. I was actually referring to the priest/doctor in Kenya!
It was a long time ago. He scrubbed up for surgeries (he invited me to attend one, I lasted ten minutes, removal of a football size tumour in a stomach), and he probably wore basic vestments for the service, but I can’t be sure. He may have just worn a dog collar. When I went to other local churches in Kenya, the priest would have worn normal clothes. I attended once or twice at the church in school grounds, I think it was Anglican, everything in kikuyu. just checked – it seems to have been a PCEA church, Presbyterian church… Read more »
I’m sorry, I can’t resist it. You would certainly have noticed if he was just wearing a dog collar!
https://www.facebook.com/p/Kiburu-Boys-High-School-100063708835512/
It seems to have changed a lot, and only in the 2013 photos do I see much resemblance. In my day it was mixed boys and girls, boarding, with separate dormitories. As I say, Justin Welby taught there just before me.
There’s the old joke about the reason why Anglican bishops have started wearing miters en masse in the last 150 years — they needed larger headwear to expand their swelling heads!
I take an enormous hat size, so I’d better be slow about commenting on that.
I find Rowland’s explanations very helpful and informative. Perhaps, Tim, you should not take Rowland’s comments personallly. Although prompted by something you have posted, they are intended to be read by other TA readers who may not have your background having not been raised in rectories etc.
Thank you. My comment was a response to Peter’s and clearly shown as such. It wasn’t addressed to anyone else personally, and certainly was not intended to cause any offence.
Perhaps I misunderstood the first sentence of your comment, Rowland:
‘I occasionally comment here and have been deeply offended by some people’s responses.’
For those interested in Catholic-Anglican relations, https://anglican.ink/2025/10/10/anglican-catholic-relations-100-years-after-malines/
There are of course ‘official’ RC statements and nothing changes there. But it’s also worth looking at a rather more hopeful official approach through ARCIC.. https://www.anglicancommunion.org/ecumenism/ecumenical-dialogues/roman-catholic/arcic.aspx And there are boundaries that are somewhat softer, Christopher you seemed to imply earlier thst you had been offered Eucharistic hospitality whilst in France and there are other stories of that. ‘Communion’ might officially be denied, but in practice is a rather more fluid thing. The statements coming from Provinces like Nigeria telling us they are no longer in Communion with Canterbury should cause us to be cautious as to why they wish to… Read more »
Well and its Anglican Ink ( snicker). I don’t visit there often. It tends to be a kind of religious Pravda for grumpy old men, don’t you find? Meanwhile, here is a view on catholicity from Archdeacon Travis Enright, who is Cree I believe, at the recent Sacred Circle gathering. These included collaboration with others as kin—choosing to belong together despite differences; consistency with the gospel at the centre of governance; consensus that seeks to know and hear the voices of others to acknowledge a way forward based on trust, commitment and responsibility; and catholicity, or being universal and inclusive… Read more »
“Well and it’s Anglican Ink ( snicker). I don’t visit there often. It tends to be a kind of religious Pravda for grumpy old men, don’t you find?”
It’s not even worthy of the name journalism. Just appalling standards and writing there generally, though the link is I think a piece from somewhere else. ARCIC is a far more reliable indicator of Anglican /RC relations..
your piece looks very interesting also
There is something both ironic and precious about the oracle Anglican Ink featuring Roman Catholic ecumenists. Cardinal Kurt Koch has had to contend with factious and fractious Roman Catholics, most notably over the ongoing issues caused by pre-Vatican II throw backs. Koch has been trying to hold for middle ground in the R.C. church. However, while on their own terms, Catholic ecumenists have been working hard at church unity since Vatican II. The folks at GAFCON/GSFA/ACNA could learn something from them in terms of a commitment to Christian Unity. Your point about “softer boundaries” than official ones is well taken.… Read more »