THINKING ANGLICANS

ECUSA departures

I have no idea who is responsible for this blog, but it seems to contain useful information:

ECUSA departures

Lists parishes that have left the Episcopal Church USA. When a group of parishioners has left, and the parish itself remains in the ECUSA, it is not listed here.

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toujoursdanAugustus MeriwetherMarshallSimon SarmientoDave Recent comment authors
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Dave
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Dave

Hi Simon, here are some more figures:

The ACN, which was formed just two years ago to stand for orthodox Anglicanism within ECUSA and maintain connections to Anglicans around the world, continues to grow. Presently, affiliates include over 1000 parishes and 2500 clergy, 10 dioceses and 6 convocations, and an estimated 250,000 communicants.

and Anglican Mission in America now has about 90 churches:
http://www.anglicanmissioninamerica.org/ProfileSearchResults.cfm

and Traditional Anglican Communion has about 80: http://www.acahome.org/

peteford
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peteford

Ummmm, parishes don’t leave ECUSA, individuals do. Parishes have no standing outside of their diocese and thus ECUSA. I hope GC 2006 will tighten up whatever canons are needed to make this ironclad. Time to put an end to this Rebellion once and for all..starting with presentments against Network and AAC bishops after GC 2006.

Augustus Meriwether
Guest

“I have no idea who is responsible for this blog”

Well, the format of ’50 state listing’ with 34 empty states catagories waiting for an entry, suggests that it’s an optimistic ‘reasserter’, at least.

Can someone advise this Brit whether there are people actually going church to church encouraging this sort of thing and offering help and advice on how to do it?

k1eranc
Guest
k1eranc

Surely this just highlights what we all suspected – disagreement is possible but only a minority will feel absolutely moved to leave. The question I’d be interested to know more about is whether these were groups of people who were likely to want to leave anyway. We all know those rigid types who refuse to do anything on less than their own narrow terms.

Peter Bergman
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Peter Bergman

Peteford: Eppur si muove!

Joseph P Frar
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Joseph P Frar

I think this list is rather incomplete. I understand,for example, that at least on parish in the Diocese of Olympia is trying to get out. And I know that Olde St. Paul’s in Portland, Maine is now a member of the ACA. Their departure dates from over 20 years ago but was only made official since Bishop Knudson became the Bishop of Maine

Cynthia
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Cynthia

Mariner’s Church in Detroit left long ago – I think over the ‘new’ BCP [would you call a 1979 car a ‘new’ car?]. The two ‘churches’ that left Diocese of Va were church plants that had not even achieved mission status. South Riding had 3 priests in 5 years; the other’s vote for departure was 88 to nothing. The first was a diocesan plant, and will be ‘replanted.’ The second was a plant from Truro, home of Martyn Minns, and will likely not be ‘replanted.’ Both were meeting in rented facilities, so there is no dispute over real estate. Some… Read more »

RMF
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RMF

I think Dave’s post up top hopelessly flawed. He suggests some numbers of diocese, as if every parish in those places and every communicant soul, is happy and eager to be counted amongst the network. They are certainly not. Quite the contrary. We can certainly say that those are the figures of people within the dioceses, and that these are the numbers the bishops and sometimes angry publicists of the acn use to suggest their numbers. But the reality is that within those dicoeses there is quite a bit of opposition to what those bishops have been up to. Many… Read more »

Jim Pratt
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Jim Pratt

The list seems overly optimistic. I worshipped at Redeemer, Rochester NH once about 6 or 7 years ago, and I could tell then it was a dying church. There were about 20 people at the service, in a building seating 250 or more, and the liturgy was one of the most dismal I have attended, entirely lacking any enthusiasm or spirit. Officially, the diocese closed Redeemer when the few remaining members left after the consecration of Gene Robinson.. Also, St. Paul’s Brockton is still part of the Diocese of Massachusetts. There is a “St. Paul’s-in-exile”, but their priest was deposed… Read more »

Dave
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Dave

RMF wrote: “I think Dave’s post up top hopelessly flawed. He suggests some numbers of diocese, as if every parish in those places and every communicant soul, is happy and eager to be counted amongst the network. They are certainly not. Quite the contrary.”

Dear RMF, The same could be said for even larger numbers of people who are in revisionist diocese and parishes!

Dave
Guest
Dave

Peteford wrote: “… parishes don’t leave ECUSA, individuals do. Parishes have no standing outside of their diocese and thus ECUSA. I hope GC 2006 will tighten up whatever canons are needed to make this ironclad. Time to put an end to this Rebellion once and for all..starting with presentments against Network and AAC bishops after GC 2006.” Dear Peteford, maybe you should start with presentments against the all the Bishops and Primates of the Anglican Communion, the ABofC and the Anglican Consultative Council ! Everyone is telling you that you were wrong and you just seem to get more and… Read more »

John Henry
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John Henry

The latest news from the Los Angeles Diocese: “La Crescenta, Calif. – Feb. 14, 2006 – St. Luke’s of the Mountains, a biblically orthodox church for over 60 years, affirms its membership in the Anglican Communion and will no longer be affiliated with the Episcopal Church USA or the Diocese of Los Angeles. St. Luke’s is now under the jurisdictional oversight of the Anglican Province of Uganda in the Diocese of Luweero, which is a member of the mainstream of the worldwide Anglican Communion.” ++Rowan Cantuar is losing more and more credibility every day as long as the African/Bolivian EPISCOPI… Read more »

RMF
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RMF

Dave,

Come on. You are playing silly word games.

Pen Brynisa
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Pen Brynisa

re: Some of us suspect that these departures are being orchestrated and timed to give the illusion of a great exodus. Yeah. It reminds me of something I heard on the radio. A few months ago, NPR (of all news organizations!) aired a report on “departing” Episcopal parishes, based mostly on their interviews with “departing” individuals, and of course they made it sound as though there was a mass exodus. Of course the report got some facts clearly wrong (it stated that Gene Robinson had been elected Presiding Bishop of ECUSA, for example). According to this website on ECUSA departures,… Read more »

Cynthia
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Cynthia

Another note about to put into perspective the two small church plants that left our diocese for Uganda: Those were both from my own Diocese of Virginia, where last month at our Annual Council [convention in some dioceses] we welcomed to full church status two church plants that have flourished and become self-sustaining. Our diocese is one of three in the state of Virginia, and consists of nearly 200 parishes. It is the most populous diocese in ECUSA. This year is the first in many when we have not started a new church plant in the diocese, but have instead… Read more »

Chad Wohlers
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Chad Wohlers

Simon –
As noted by another, St. Paul’s Brockton, Mass., has not left the Episcopal Church. Individuals from that parish did indeed leave with their priest, who was defrocked for sexual misconduct, but the building and parish are still part of the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts.

Prior Aelred
Guest

It is, of course, impossible to issue presentments against primates outside the canonical structure. The Anglican Communion is a fellowship of (mostly, but not quite) national churches which are the highest canoncal entities. It may (or may not) be a goal of the Windsor Report to change this, but it is the current reality.

peteford
Guest
peteford

Sigh…you literalists.

When I said make presentments against Network and AAC bishops following GC 2006, I meant against ECUSA bishops who make any effort to realign a diocese with a foreign province. They should be disciplined…severely.

Regarding foreign bishops who are committing theft by coming in and claiming authority over ECUSA parishes, ECUSA needs to respond as a body to this. I think it starts with things like cutting funding to ACC.

Of course, Rebellion parishes seeking cover from foreign bishops is going to blow up in their face eventually. We’ll see how long this “marriage of convenience” lasts.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Dear Peteford

Episcopal authority is based on Christ’s souvereignty. Obedience to Christ, the Apostles and Church teachings is a primary issue; Bishops who reject it have no authority, only temporal functional power.

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

Dave: There is a canonical structure in Anglicanism. Individuals like yourself do not make the determination single-handedly whether a bishop has rejected Christ and/or the Apostles’ teaching or not. Many reasserters (and certain evangelicals) hold a ‘theology of contamination’. All a godly bishop has to do is breathe the same air in the same room with, say, Frank T Griswold or Gene Robinson and, in their judgment, s/he is ‘contaminated’. The ‘theology of contamination’ makes a mockery of the gospels and places those who subscribe to it among the ranks of the ‘scribes and the Pharisees’. By the way, there… Read more »

J. C. Fisher
Guest

“Bishops who reject it” . . . *in Dave’s opinion*.

Tom
Guest
Tom

I just love all of the charity and inclusivity expressed on this site! Why not deal honestly with the fact that ECUSA numbers are dropping? Fewer people are on the rolls of Episcopal parishes, fewer people are attending services. I believe that the size of the average congregation is well below 100. Many dioceses are saddled with redundant congregations. Where is the growth? The number of formal parish realignments may be small but it is obvious that many are leaving the pews silently. They are not buying the message. They aren’t making a huff, they are just walking out. Would… Read more »

Prior Aelred
Guest

Tom — The official site of The Episcopal Church has a site where you can download the numbers on baptized, attendance & donations for every diocese (& apparently every parish) in TEC. I have checked numerous dioceses, especially those supposedly at the extremes — every diocese tracks the same — with slight fluctuations, the numbers of baptized & regular attendants (ca. slightly under 50%) is slightly decreasing & donations are up — I can discern no difference whatsoever in “liberal” or “conservative” dioceses (which I confess was rather surprizing). The changes seem to be demographic & universal in white middle… Read more »

Christopher Calderhead
Guest
Christopher Calderhead

Why sure, Tom. First I suppose we should note that the Episcopal Church has never been a very large denomination within American society. Its national influence in the past has much to do with the fact that it was, for the better part of its history, largely composed of members of upper class WASP society. In the last generation or so, it has broadened into a much more broadly based church, both in terms of ethnicity and social class. At the same time, the WASP aristocracy which supported it has waned in both numbers and influence. So an honest appraisal… Read more »

J. C. Fisher
Guest

Because the picture is more *mixed* than that, Tom.

Yes, some Episcopalians are leaving ECUSA.

. . . but other people are *joining* ECUSA.

Some will hurriedly ask, “But what’s the net change?” (as if overall “Numbers Up!” or “Numbers Down!” were determinative of faithfulness to the Gospel).

I believe that whether the overall numbers are up or down, just isn’t the point.

Like Apollos, it’s our job just to “water” this tender reed (w/ the strength of The Cross!) called “The Church”. Now, as 2000 years ago, “God gives the growth” . . . in *God’s Good Time*.

Thanks be to God! 😀

RMF
Guest
RMF

Thanks to Simon for excellent job of organizing reports of Synod. This report from 2004 is very instructive, and should clarify the claim made variously here and elswhere as the need and hope arises, that a lone parish or group of parishes outside of a Church, can be Anglican. Such does not exist. Anglicanism is by its nature relational. (Hence the calls to express regret for stressing the bonds of affection.) The spoke of the relations is ABC. From 2004 Synod: Question 70 Dr Philip Jeffrey (Chichester) to ask the Secretary General [Mr William Fittall]: Q. In view of the… Read more »

RMF
Guest
RMF

Well put Cheryl and J.C. [Hello J.C., I seem to see your name everywhere. 🙂 ]

I would add, that if you look at the membership of the Episcopal Church over its history, as a percentage of the population, its membership has remained fairly consistent over a small range.

And let us recognize also, that TEC annually purges its rolls, almost obsessively so, unlike other denominations, who have much softer criteria for counting membership and who count as members people TEC would not.

Tom
Guest
Tom

Interesting perspective y’all have here…sad, but interesting. Does anyone here think it possible that ECUSA is shrinking because of the direction in which we are heading? That the general church-going population does not find our approach to be truly Christian? RMF, we have dropped from 3.2 mil out of about 180 mil to 2.3 mil out of 260 mil in the last 30-40 years, that may be a small range but it is statistically huge. If we were holding our own we should be around 5 million, we’re less than half that. JC, numbers are indeed part of the point.… Read more »

RMF
Guest
RMF

Good work, Tom. It’s always good to ask for charity and then say, “Quiet, you are contaminated, come back when you aren’t contaminated anymore.”

Why not put that in a welcome packet and circulate?

Christopher Calderhead
Guest
Christopher Calderhead

Tom, I’ll stand by what I said about the vociferous, organized minority working for the demise of the Episcopal Church. My language was blunt, but I don’t think it’s unfair– vociferous: you know the websites. Virtue Online, TitusOneNine, AAC… plus there have been plenty of actions on the ground (The demonstration in front of the CT state capitol, just to mention one) organized: Plano Conference, AAC, AMIA. minority: If they were the majority, their points of view would have prevailed at the last General Convention. working for the demise: This last point is reasonably arguable either way; the Network and… Read more »

John-Francis
Guest
John-Francis

On Feb. 14th Augustus Merriweather asked if there were people encouraging others to leave the church. Yesterday I received the regular mailing from the AAC. The only matter it communicated concerned their adoption of ‘The Episcopal Witness Program’. Great, thought this Brit – they’ve developed a new programme for witnessing to the love of God in Jesus Christ in order that the church can grow. “The American Anglican Council (AAC) announced today adoption of the lay outreach program Episcopal Witness, developed last year by the AAC chapter in Washington, D.C., and currently used in various parts of the mid-Atlantic region.… Read more »

RMF
Guest
RMF

Go to any of these so-called AAC parish websites and you will find there that the message is “Come grow in the love and joy of Our Lord Jesus Christ!”

They really need to change it and to be vocal about their selectivity.

They need to make it:
“Come grow in the love and joy of Our Lord Jesus Christ!”*

*Now accepting applications, lbgt need not apply. We reserve the right to refuse the Lord to whomever we may decide.

Chris Jones
Guest

This is an odd and not very useful list. One would think that it was a list of parishes that have left due to the “current unpleasantness”. But at least a few are parishes that left long ago, while many parishes that left in the past are not included. St Mark’s Denver, for example, became Western-rite Orthodox over 15 years ago; but Holy Cross, Concord CA, which became Western-rite Orthodox at about the same time, is not listed. If they are going to list parishes that have left ECUSA at any time, over any issue, why do they not list… Read more »

peteford
Guest
peteford

Let’s take a reality break. What’s the Rebellion (AAC/Network) game plan? What are they really up to? Well, we know it’s going to be something covert, something sneaky, and something underhanded. We know they are getting dioceses like Texas and Dallas to change Article I of their Constitutions to make it easier to try to take a diocese out of ECUSA and into either the Network or some other Province. We know they are trying to give the appearance of a great number of parishes “leaving” ECUSA leading up too GC 2006. We know they’ve denounced all the candidates for… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

JCF wrote: “Bishops who reject it” . . . *in Dave’s opinion*.

Dear JCF, I claim support for *my* view by non other than the collective Bishops of the Anglican Communion (Lambeth 98), and the Primates (2005) and the Anglican Consultative Council (2005).

Is that any more persuasive to you ?

Simon Sarmiento
Guest

Chris Jones and others: thank you for your comments about the accuracy or not of the original list. I will draw these comments to the attention of the original list creator. But it sounds as if the only way to have an accurate list of precisely those ECUSA parishes who claim to have corporately left ECUSA since GC 2003, and entered into another “Anglican” jurisdiction, would be to create one here. Sigh.

FreeStater
Guest
FreeStater

As to the number of communicants in ECUSA, and contrary to RMF’s comments on 12/16, the church’s rolls are FULL of people who never show up, probably haven’t for years, and have no further intention of doing so … The national aggregate ASA is only about 750,000….. and declining steadily… Heck, my family left in October 2003 and we still get solicitations and mailings and info just as if everything was peachy keen…. We’re not members any longer and have been evaluating the Tiber crossing, but I bet we are DEFINITELY on the ECUSA rolls …. Helping the revisionist Diocese… Read more »

J. C. Fisher
Guest

No, Dave, it’s not. This is still only *your characterization* of what those “instruments of unity” meant to say—I’d say it’s far from clear whether they know what they meant (much less whether their discernment, for good OR ill, should be binding on ECUSA: “IofU” is still *advisory only* on the national churches). Dave, I believe that our exchange of comments on TA are just wasting both of our time. I find that nothing I say is getting through to you—I don’t think you’re disposed to hear me beyond your prejudices. Go in peace: may the grace of Christ be… Read more »

Prior Aelred
Guest

FWIW (not much, alas) my recollection is that the percentage of the population of the USA who have been Episcopalians has generally been about 1% — sometimes close to 1.5%, sometimes more like .5%, but always the tiniest of fractions of the population since its organization — it’s influence in relation to its size has always been rather remarkable.

RMF
Guest
RMF

peteford said, “Here’s what might happen: After GC 2006, when ECUSA hasn’t properly “repented,” the Rebellion will claim that ECUSA, as governed by General Convention, has committed schism by failing to adhere entirely to the Windsor Report and the demands of the majority of the Anglican Communion.” Well, in that case, the Rebellion will also be reminded that they have not complied, because they are encouraging and abetting boundary crossings, forbidden by Windsor. So I suppose they will be out of Communion as well. Oh dear! But really, it is a pipe dream, because Communion is a question of entire… Read more »

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

Let’s hope it leads to a split sooner than later – although the terror of boldness is something endemic to the CofE and its cowardly leadership.

Rev. Lois Keen
Guest
Rev. Lois Keen

“Freestater” points out a failing in church record keeping which is the bain of us ECUSA clergy – or at least of this clergywoman. First, I am not supposed to remove from the church record book any who are no longer attending but have not requested a letter of transfer to another parish or denomination. (In the same way, I am not supposed to add anyone who is regularly attending and contributing who has not formally transferred in or been received through the parish I serve. Although on the annual parochial report, there is now a line for me to… Read more »

RMF
Guest
RMF

Mother Lois,

My wife and I will certainly add you and your faithful congregation to our prayers.

My point about rolls is not that there are not erorrs, which is probably indisputable since we are all just fallible humans, but that there is good faith efforts to purge them and update them every year.

J. C. Fisher
Guest

Prayers for you and St. Martin’s, Mother Lois, comin’ atcha! (Well, comin’ *for* ya, anyway :-D) I was praying the Daily Office, and yesterday the NT readings really leapt out at me, regarding this thread (“ECUSA departures”): “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us . . . If you know that [Christ] is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who does right is born of him.”… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

JCF wrote: “Bishops who reject it” . . . *in Dave’s opinion*. Dave wrote: “Dear JCF, I claim support for *my* view by none other than the collective Bishops of the Anglican Communion (Lambeth 98) etc Is that any more persuasive to you ?” JCF wrote: “No, Dave, it’s not.” Dear JCF, Somehow I didn’t think it would be. I suppose I should have added support from Holy Scripture (both NT and OT), church tradition for the last 2000 years, and the united voice of all the apostolic catholic churches. But I don’t think that would make any difference to… Read more »

Simon Sarmiento
Guest

This thread is about “ECUSA departures”. Further comments should be clearly on topic, please.

Marshall
Guest

Regarding the discussion about how many are actually in the Episcopal Church: for good or ill (for good and ill?), for a generation we have emphasized the ancient standard that baptism admits a person to full membership in Christ, and therefore to full participation in the Church. One result was to see a woman as appropriate matter for the sacrament of ordination. Another was to force a rethinking on the sacrament of confirmation. A third was to empasize baptized membership in reports where once we emphasized baptized and confirmed membership. A corollary to that was to welcome all those baptized… Read more »

Augustus Meriwether
Guest

Rev Lois Keen,

After reading ‘FreeStater’s’ comment of the 16th, I was wondering if you ever went by the nickname of ‘Peachy-Keen’.

I do hope you have, that would be like a sign or something…

Oh, Ecusa departures: numbers numbers numbers

Is this like when conservatives say the abysmal NIV translation is clearly blessed and approved by God because it’s popular? So, if numbers go down God is angry? ‘Grrrr – shoo Christians, shoo!’

It’s like the telethon thermometer guage of theological correctness.

toujoursdan
Guest
toujoursdan

The decline in baptised membership figure (rather than communicant or sunday worship figures) over the past 30 years has little to nothing to do with theology. It has to do with birthrate. See: http://www.baptiststandard.com/postnuke/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=4064 The Communicant/Avg Sunday figures have gone through a 2 yr drop but having lived in the Diocese of Dallas, I can safely say that most progressives and conservatives who stopped attending did so because they were tired of the bickering, not because there is a Bishop in a faraway diocese who in the privacy of his own bedroom probably has sex with someone whose plumbing matches… Read more »