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more on ECUSA new presiding bishop

Updated again Tuesday morning

The Archbishop of Canterbury has issued this statement (see ACNS original here)

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams has issued a statement on the election of the Rt Revd Katharine Jefferts Schori as the next Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church of the United States of America, in succession to the Most Revd Frank Griswold.

“ I send my greetings to Bishop Katharine and she has my prayers and good wishes as she takes up a deeply demanding position at a critical time. She will bring many intellectual and pastoral gifts to her new work, and I am pleased to see the strength of her commitment to mission and to the Millennium Development Goals.

Her election will undoubtedly have an impact on the collegial life of the Anglican Primates; and it also brings into focus some continuing issues in several of our ecumenical dialogues.

We are continuing to pray for the General Convention of the Episcopal Church as it confronts a series of exceptionally difficult choices.”

Earlier today Dr Rowan Williams spoke to Bishop Schori by telephone to assure her of prayers as she prepares to take up her post.

The Diocese of Fort Worth has appealed to Lambeth for “immediate alternative Primatial oversight and Pastoral Care.” See this statement by the diocesan standing committee:

The Bishop and the Standing Committee of the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth appeal in good faith to the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Primates of the Anglican Communion and the Panel of Reference for immediate alternative Primatial oversight and Pastoral Care following the election of Katharine Jefferts Schori as Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church.
This action is taken as a cooperative member of the Anglican Communion Network in light of the Windsor Report and its recommendations.

Tuesday newspapers

Tuesday’s articles in The Times are already online:
Ruth Gledhill and James Bone Anglicans ‘are close to anarchy’ in dispute over female bishop
editorial comment A house divided
The strapline is: “The Archbishop of Canterbury must be bolder or schism is inevitable”
See also Ruth’s blog entry.

Stephen Bates in the Guardian has Anglican acclaim and fury over woman bishop. And also Showing the way?

The Telegraph has:
Jonathan Petre Conservative Texas speeds schism over female bishop
and an opinion piece by Damian Thompson Anglicans should welcome a schism

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Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts

The Bishop of Fort Worth and Standin Committee didnt wait long to pray, reflect and consult –could they ?

Amazing as they have put TEC and GC through all this –and more…

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

No congratulations?

No “I am delighted to learn…”??

No “I look forward greatly…”???

New Here
Guest
New Here

This could be a real miscalculation for the Network types. They have built their campaign for schism on their opposition to gays, which is a very safe position to take in the U.S., but now they are on record as also being anti-woman. That is not such a safe position to take, since many of the “reasserters” are women themselves, and many support women’s ordination, even Bob Duncan, the would-be Archbishop Metropolitan and Primate of the United States, who has been ordaining women for years. I think we can count on a split among the splitters over this issue and… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Poor Fort Worth… more ‘unintended fall-out’ I presume. Do TEC’s liberals feel at all responsible for the effects of their decisions on other Christians ?

William Rolf
Guest
William Rolf

Am I reading into ++Cantuar’s statement merely requiste courtesy overshadowed by misgivings?

J. C. Fisher
Guest

“Her election will undoubtedly have an impact on the collegial life of the Anglican Primates”

Starting w/ an extra bathroom? 😉

[Re Fort Worth: a Christ-worshipping body apparently being insufficiently “orthodox”, maybe they’ll appeal for “alternative Messianic oversight” next? :-/]

ruidh
Guest

I fail to see the basis for Ft. Worth to make such an application. The canonical roles for the PB are generally so divorced from the day to day operations of a far away diocese for them to need any protection of the sort they have claimed. The one role that might be said to impinge on their diocesan policy of not ordaining women is the usual role of the PB as chief consecrator of bishops. This role has been delegated in the past and I have no reason to think it would not continue to be delegated in the… Read more »

David Huff
Guest

I’m sorry, but as a resident of N. Texas, I cringe everytime Bp. Iker opens his mouth. “Alternative Primatial Oversight” indeed… The man is just an embarrassment to TEC. He’s actually one of the *few* reasons I’m glad I live next door in the Diocese of Dallas 😉

Dave
Guest
Dave

ps Is Fort Worth the first casualty of Hurricane Katharine ?

Cheryl Clough
Guest

There was a write up in Reuters about the implications of a woman bishop http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-19T202311Z_01_L19841627_RTRUKOC_0_UK-RELIGION-ANGLICANS.xml&pageNumber=2&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2 The article concluded with this conservative quote: “”We would expect the Episcopal Church will continue its acceleration into outer space,” he said in the United States. “The fabric of the communion is being torn at its deepest level. This will simply accelerate and continue the tearing.”” Some personal ponderings have been around this very point. Should humanity be allowed into into outer space if it can not genuinely cope with diversity? If we can not accept variation within the human spectrum, how are we going… Read more »

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

Dave

Fort Worth are making mischief — as we all realise.

They love to be offended and put out.

Tim
Guest

I would be interested to know on what grounds Fort Worth think her appointment not in line with God’s will. Note that anti-female tradition is not a reason. I quite like what Dr Williams has to say: “She will bring many intellectual and pastoral gifts to her new work, and I am pleased to see the strength of her commitment to mission and to the Millennium Development Goals.” – that sounds quite positive, to me. Cheryl asks: “If we can not accept variation within the human spectrum, how are we going to cope with variation beyond the human spectrum?” We’ve… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

Couple of things. Having greeted our new PB-elect, however tepidly, the Wimp of Canterbury cannot dare disinvite her to Lambeth, much less the next meeting of the Primates [or whoever invites}. My hope is that she will be present at all subsequent consecrations of bishops, who of course will be ordaining priests, which will certainly discomfort those who are as much afraid of girl cooties as they are of gay cooties. It will indeed be interesting to see what the fallout is with the ones who are ‘only’ antigay and their allies who are both antigay and antiwomen. I suspect… Read more »

Tim
Guest

Now I know Ruth Gledhill has her leanings in the popular press. Ooh! Sensation!

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

+Jack Iker is a sincere Christian gentleman; but, unfortunately, he is hung up on the ordination of women and on gays and lesbians in the Episcopal Church. He follows a series of bishops who had difficulties accepting divorced and remarried lay members (not to mention clergy!). As habitual ‘adulterers’, they were barred from the sacraments. As a priest on the staff of the cathedral of a neighboring diocese, I officiated, at my bishop’s request, at numerous weddings of divorced Episcopalians who were residents of Fort Worth/Dallas, TX. Being more affluent than other couples, they could afford to take up residence… Read more »

Jim Pratt
Guest
Jim Pratt

Unlike with a female diocesan, for the Fort Worth crowd a female PB has very little, if any, impact on the way they run their diocese. At one point in his tenure, Frank Griswold stopped consecrating bishops altogether and left the chief consecrator’s role to the provincial presidents. Indeed, that is the Canadian model, where the four provincial metropolitans are the chief consecrators of new bishops in their provinces. And when Ft. Worth elects another misogynist male bishop to succeed Jack Iker, they can invite only male bishops to ordain him. And the PB’s role does not include confirmations or… Read more »

Caelius Spinator
Guest
Caelius Spinator

Dave–

After a long experience of reading your comments here, I will warn you that there is a good chance that you would feel deeply uncomfortable in Ft. Worth due to your churchmanship. A few priests there have left for the Roman Catholic Church. Also consider that there may be many of your viewpoint living in the Diocese of Fort Worth, who have been pushed out of their parishes by +Iker’s high-handedness.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Gee, this passing idea – that everything the new conservative realignment campaign has done and will do, soon, is nothing but a reluctant response to provocations by liberals – well it is worthy of Senator Joe McCarthy and his campaign against queers and communists in high places. What is this appetite for character assassination? How quickly this hungry beast snaps and bites at the new Presiding Bishop – probably because she has credentials which suggest she is quite a gifted leader with more than adequate intellectual training? If Rowan Williams falls for this one, the plea from Biswhop Iker in… Read more »

Terri Sterling
Guest
Terri Sterling

This is a proud day in the Episcopal Church. Just like Gene Robinson’s ordination after 2003 GC, this election of K. Schori is the right thing. Many will say it’s the wrong time, but the right thing, even at the wrong time, doesn’t make it wrong. It’s still right. We will see what the ACC does with this: are they prepared to ostracize women as well as homosexuals?

Don Allison
Guest
Don Allison

My guess is that the ultimate problem for the Anglican Communion and ECUSA will not be with Katherine Schori’s being a woman. I believe most across our denomination would ultimately accept that. Those, such as the Diocese of Fort Worth, who oppose her on scriptural grounds, because she is a woman, would likely ultimately be in a small minority. The fundamental problem with Bishop Schori’s elevation will be theological and scriptural — HER OWN apparent (by her own words) theological perspective and attitude toward Scripture. Since the late 1970s, I, for one, have stood for and written in support of… Read more »

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

In a recent CNN Interview with Larry King, Mr. King asked why VG Robinson remained in TEC, knowing that many church members resent his being a bishop. His answer: “To proclaim the unconditional love of Christ.” The same question was put to Canon Anderson, the representative of the AAC. His answer, in stark contrast, was: “I love a good fight.” Both gentlemen’s answers are very revealing!

Nersen Pillay
Guest
Nersen Pillay

Laurel and Hardy films are full of the phrase, “This is another fine mess you’ve got me into!”I wonder if the ABC feels like this with ECUSA. Anyway,whatever his sympathies and desire to hold things together, he will have to try to sort things out soon – his old friends continue to make his life very difficult. Sorry “liberals”, you will find the ABC’s actions continue to disappoint you because he cannot lead the Anglican church into the declining numbers everyone can see in ECUSA and all liberal churches…..he has seen too much “Alpha” type church growth (even in England)… Read more »

Tim
Guest

Don Allison, you make a very good point.

My only thought on the matter is to wonder whether `so it’s a different but consistent and justifiable viewpoint, let her live’ marks one out as being on the “non-orthodox” “side”. ISTM increasingly the definition of potential schism hinges around tolerance for others and their views, not the views in question.

Martin Reynolds
Guest

Don Allison’s post is the most interesting and thoughtful offering I have read for a long while.

I would like to hear much more from him.

RMF
Guest
RMF

The Times editorial is very useful. Dr. Williams as an honest broker is welcome but he must do more than this. He must now, like the monarchs he warmly and obliquely referenced recently at St. Pauls, rouse himself from the throne and come down into the benches and do some glad handling because if he doesn’t there will be trouble. This means that he will not be able to simply stay above the fray and try to make “space” for all sides. He must move boldly. (In America we say “think outside the box”.) I bet he can come up… Read more »

Simeon
Guest
Simeon

John Henry wrote, “I am delighted that the Diocese of Dallas is now less rigorous in its pursuit of biblical purism.”

Well, I’m not sure I’d go *that* far. Yes, AFAIK, our Bishop allows divorced couples to re-marry. But the pursuit of “biblical” purism forges ahead unabated.

Just ask any GLBT Episcopalian in Dallas. Ask anyone at my thoroughly mainstream parish (a parish that has been referred to as “no longer Christian” by various residents of Diocesan House for not falling in line with the AAC/Network agenda). Dallas is *not* a happy place for mainstream ECUSA folks (much less progressives).

Dustin
Guest
Dustin

Much thanks to Don Allison for his post; it really encapsulates many of my worries & thoughts. My problems with ECUSA are not the blessing of same-sex unions & women’s ordination. I think it would take very little effort to make a scriptural case for them. My problem with the ECUSA is that so many of the actions of the leadership, and even large sections of the laity, seem to be primarily motivated by secular philosophy. For self proclaimed Christians, they seem to have little actual interest in Christ & Christianity & reduce the faith to little more than a… Read more »

New Here
Guest
New Here

Yeah, I’m not so sure if I would consider Dallas progressive:

When Bonnie Perry got up and asked the HoD if A161 meant that gays were to return to lying and deceiving about who they are in order to be in the church, I watched three priests from the Diocese of Dallas look at each other, chuckle, and nod their heads.

http://journals.fotki.com/kahuliz/GC06/entry/wbtgtqkrkkb/

Well, they have got “clarity.” You gotta give ’em that.

Robert Christian
Guest
Robert Christian

Are there non Network places in the Diocese of Dallas to worship? I’m visiting friends and family this September. In this big debate over Liberal and Network ideals I still don’t understand how we can’t worship in the same church. I’m very liberal theologically and others in my parish are very conservative, but our committment to the gospel is still very much a part of who we are as a community. We use the BCP to worship communally and we focus on ministries that appeal to us different theoligical outlooks. Sometimes we even agree such as ministries such as the… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Laurence Roberts wrote: “Dave. Fort Worth are making mischief — as we all realise.” Dear Laurence, Rubbish! Fort Worth take St Paul’s prohibitions on women teaching and having authority as applying for all time (and have stood by this position for years). Whereas I think it was meant to be for the particular circumstances he was writing about, it’s very debatable from Scriptural exegesis either way. So I respect their way of submitting to God through obedience to Scripture…. The people I disagree with profoundly are those who reject the authority of Scripture and just try to make-it-up-as-they-go-long!

Dave
Guest
Dave

There are some interesting interview material with ++Katharine here: http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2006-06-19 (starts at about 24 minutes).

The best bit is her [lack of] ability to say *anything* substantial about the reality of an “afterlife”!

Austin
Guest
Austin

“I, for one, have stood for and written in support of the ordination of women and openly gay and lesbian priests, as well as for the blessing of same sex unions — ON THE BASIS OF SCRIPTURE AND ORTHODOX THEOLOGY.”

Good for you. What fun. I’ve been arguing for vegetarianism on the basis of only eating animals that eat vegetables. But oddly enough vegetarians don’t seem to be catching on.

Illuminated
Guest
Illuminated

I love Cow Town. After living there for 17 years, I understand the mindset of many of its God-fearing residents. That, I think, is the whole point of Ft. Worth’s request for alternative oversight. They are God-fearing. God-fearing. If we can believe the CNN interview with Schori and the Times online account of it, how can we fault Fort Worth for their request???? In the interview, apparently “Bishop Schori told CNN yesterday that she did not believe homosexuality was a sin, adding: “I believe that God creates us with different gifts.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2233424,00.html I can understand that she doesn’t believe that… Read more »

Ryan
Guest
Ryan

“Good for you. What fun. I’ve been arguing for vegetarianism on the basis of only eating animals that eat vegetables. But oddly enough vegetarians don’t seem to be catching on.”

Is this an admittance that a biblical case for same-sex unions can’t be made?

PTate in MN
Guest
PTate in MN

First time poster but lifelong Episcopalian–I’m delighted to have found my way to this conversation. Every 500 years or so the Christian church has undergone some kind of transformation–around 500AD, the church fathers created the institutional church, consolidated the bible & liturgy and crushed heresy; around 1000 AD, the church splintered into East and West; of course, the protestant Reformation occurred around 1500–and, if you do the math, we are about due for another transformation. The evidence that the time has come is all around us: Today’s church has been unable to encompass grave challenges to its traditional views: the… Read more »

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

Dave I don’t buy this. It’s balls. Ackernman is making mischief, again. If they r e a l l y felt WO was against the truth, they would surely have had the integrity to lave TEC when it adopted WO as its offical policy & teaching? WO was adopted by TEC’s democratic decision making processes. Alternatively, they could have remained within TEC with a good grce, accepting diversity of belief & practice on WO. To stay & gripe and spring traps and ambushes, is what I call mischief–and it is mild word for such bad behaviour from grown-ups. And to… Read more »

Robert Christian
Guest
Robert Christian

PTate: As one life long Episcopalian to another, this can be very interesting exchanges. Dave, Austin and Illuminated: I think the real argument is do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? Hmmm. NO. Why do we have two creation stories and which one do the God fearing folks of Ft. Worth believe to be correct? Genesis 2 a. The story comes from the southern storyteller of this and other stories. b. It was first written about 1000 BCE (before the common era, same as BC) c. The pre-creation situation is dry desert because that’s what you… Read more »

Nersen
Guest
Nersen

PTate writes, “Finally success will depend on our faithfulness. Are we indeed doing God’s work? If we are, we will succeed.”

Well, I agree – and it is not surprising that ECUSA is losing 35,000+ members per year and at this rate will disappear in the next few decades.

Also, I agree that “faithfulness” to God is the key and this explains why conservative and charismatic Anglican churches are showing the strongest growth and have been for decades – even in England.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Some of these postings have been excellent, welcome to both Don Allison and PTate (and the others too). To continue with PTate’s posting of 20 June, it is also finding the imagery or parables that bring the bible to life and relevant to the issues people are facing in the here and now. Then what happens is what happened in Thesolonians: you find biblical imagery or dialogues ripple into other parts of the community and beyond borders, sometimes without people even recognising where it came from. There is a saying that “there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Robert Christian wrote: “I think the real argument is do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? Hmmm. NO.”

Dear Robert, Beware wasting your posts by putting up “straw men”. I am not a biblical literalist, so your questions don’t address how I read Scripture.
What I believe is that the New Testament, properly interpreted (as opposed to rejected or adjusted to remove ‘offensive’ bits), is the most authoritative word on Christian belief and conduct – and ditto the OT on Judaism (and as a basis for understanding Christianity’s roots).

Cheryl Clough
Guest

And just to prove the point how biblical imagery can take on a life of its own this article about a Canadian goldilocks bear was posted overnight linked to the front page of BBC’s science/nature page today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5097124.stm

If you want to giggle more (as a girlfriend and I did when we noticed the “coincidence” with some bemusement); do a word search for bear in the bible: the imagery is quite strong.

Robert Christian
Guest
Robert Christian

Dave:

Do believe that all Buddhist and Muslims are damned too?

Also, You didn’t answer which creation story is the real one.

A friend and a Conservative Rabbi commented that the Bible is pertenant today because the same issues that people wrestled with 2500 yrs ago are the same ones confronting us today. God gives a chance to learn from the past.

That said, we could still go to the same church, worship and be in community and be civil without condemning others (such as your statement about FW).

David Huff
Guest
David Huff

Robert Christian,

Yes, there are several non-Network parishes in Dallas. Please email me and I’d be happy to provide a list.

david AT dhuff DOT org