Thinking Anglicans

comment on the NY and Texas meetings

Updated Thursday morning and again Thursday afternoon

Mark Harris has Well the Skunk is on the Table: ACN claims to be the Episcopal Church. (Revised)

Greg Jones has New York Meeting a Bust and also And Now to the Texas Meeting of Bishops — Take Two
Update He has added further comment at Anglican Centrist Defends Himself

Susan Russell has ACNS Reports on NYC “September Summit”

Matt Kennedy What Happened in New York: In 9 Easy Steps

Mary Ailes Aftermath of New York Summit – Griswold and Schori reject the Canterbury Compromise – Attention turns to Camp Allen “Windsor Meeting”

Dan Martins Anglicanism: Time for a Quantum Leap?

Tom Woodward A Simple Solution to an Intractable Problem

Bryan Taylor Reconciliation Doublespeak: Factionalism Unites

Tony Clavier Huh? and also On The Other Hand

Fr Jake AlPO: The Choice of the TDAD

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Steve Lusk
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Steve Lusk

I’m beginning to feel like the Major General at the beginning of Act II of the Pirates of Penzance. The police (here portrayed by the ACN) march about singing of how “we go, we go.” After the fourth or fifth chorus the General explodes, “Yes, but you don’t go!”

Martin Reynolds
Guest

I would very much like to see the three documents – the draft text and the two revised texts that passed across the table in New York. That would give us some idea of the state of play. As one might expect the negotiating went on after the meeting had closed with Duncan playing the international card and Griswold/Schori holding out the possibility of further talks. It does Susan no good at all to hide her head under the table and say that they sky is not falling in and everything in the parish goes on a pace. TEC has… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

It’s not a surprise that they were polite at the meeting and then made their moves afterwards. There are those who a driven by a sense of theological urgency and see being nice as being forced to consort with “the evil one” (a term I’ve seen used used at least once against at least one liberal in the last year). If they don’t have those under the influence of the “evil one” under control (i.e. suppressed), then for their parishioners’ sake they must split. Further, they must rescue the unsuspecting parishioners elsewhere who do not yet know that their souls… Read more »

laurence.roberts
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laurence.roberts

Forgive my ignorance Martin, but I don’t understand all the nuances and allusions, here.

What is ‘their position’ (in ‘the steady move towards’?)

Also what is the direction that makes her feel uncomfotable ?

do u mean FG and KS are being wrong footed / maneuvered ?

Steve Lusk
Guest
Steve Lusk

The “orthodox” Virginia parishes have embarked on “40 Days of Discernment,” a series of guided discussions to “choose a way forward”: http://www.40daysofdiscernment.org/index.php
For those interested in how those people think, it’s worth a read . . .

Colin Coward
Guest

I’ve attempted to read as many of the reports, reactions, comments and blogs as possible. How do people find time for all this? And for so much speculation and conjecture about what really happened and what it all means? As a member of the CofE, I’m feeling neglected in all the dicsussion, and it’s MY Primate who is most often being dissected in the comments. The potential schismatics are not articulating an Anglican ethos, ecclesiology or theology such as I have lived with for 60 years. We are living through and almost certainly about to witness a major change in… Read more »

Columba Gilliss
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Columba Gilliss

Outside of the Box – a question and a suggestion: Question – Has any diocesan covention actually voted to either leave the Episcopal Church or challenge the legitimacy of the present leadership including Executive Council? Suggestion – Convene a meeting of diocesan chancellors to draft suggestions themselves – no bishops invited. If that would make too large a group to allow for real discussion then equal numbers from those dioceses requesting APO or Network affiliated, those with substantial numbers of congregations that self identify as reasserters and the like number from dioceses that are happy to be part of TEC… Read more »

Prior Aelred
Guest

Steve Lusk — a brilliant encapsulation of the feeling of many!

I confess to finding the entire proceeding curious — certainly the Presiding Bishop has no authority to divide the Property of The Episcopal Church — I cannot see what ability anyone participant had to do anything to change the situation other than being faithful to their ordination vows and either acknowledging the authority of the General Convention or simply leaving (as any individual is free to do).

Prior Aelred
Guest

Nice to see you Colin — I am most interested to hear your suggestion that when the split becomes formalized the C of E & TEC will find themselves in the same grouping since another analysis (I forget now where I saw it) said that the inevitable future of the C of E was exclusively Evangelical (since they are the only ones who go to church or have any money) BUT as to the meeting in NY — I’ve said before that I don’t understand what the outcome could have been except bishops agreeing to acknowledge the authority of General… Read more »

Marshall Scott
Guest

Here I am again, counselling patience. But it seems to me that we still don’t know what happened in the New York meeting. Even the suggestions of “drafts” are speculation, fueled by sources that may be respected by those who quote them, but that can’t be respected generally until we know who they are, or we know from facts that they’ve been accurate.

As we say in our house, “arguments from silence are specious in both directions.” That is, if we don’t know, *we don’t know.*

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Whatever goes on internally in these meetings, they serve possible important new conservative strategic ends. Having occurred, they can be spun endlessly by being defined at any given moment in the way most favorable to the split/realignment campaign agenda. Among the most popular new conservative realignment spin cycles so far? (1) we orthodox bishops tried, but the nasty TEC libs are stubborn/willful/wrong-headed. Can’t they see we are trying to get them to repent and save their very souls for all eternity? (2) we are still meeting and talking, so no network diocese/parish is actually really leaving TEC via APO –… Read more »

Steven
Guest
Steven

Marshall:

Good points. Still, I am actually “slightly”–and it would be hard to emphasize how slight–optimistic. There is a lot of pressure for settlement on both sides. This often leads to some unique and creative solutions. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Steven

Leonardo Ricardo
Guest
Leonardo Ricardo

It’s time ALL the meetings are OPEN and televised with LIVE cameras. No longer can we allow blatant behind-the-scene manipulating and “for our own good” actions to be taken for us at TEC…”inside information” and obvious deceit, underlying or out-in-the-open THREATS plus the fear/hate and apprehension generated by Bishops dressed up as messengers of “true” Scriptural “understanding” must be noted for what they REALLY are…they are wedges with words against fellow Episcopalians/Anglicans, our faith, our families and our unity. We ought not allow any more suffocating, divisive and deceitful doubletalk from some of the less-than-honorable gentlemen who *insist* they know… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Colin Coward does not seem to see the significance in the words and actions of the ABC – look what he did to his friend J.John

He no longer seems like a man who believes a fudge can be made to keep TEC and the vast majority of Anglicans in the world together. He has made sacrifices (like pleasing J.John and friends) which show this.

CofE – the ABC may not like Reform but he is very keen on “Alpha” and he has never let them down, unlike his old friend J.John………don’t bet on the CofE jumping into bed with TEC.

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

Leonardo Ricardo is spot on when he demands that “Let’s OPEN the Meetings to “live” coverage from Camp Allen and onward…then we will decide if the “Windsor” Bishops have read/believe in ALL of the Windsor report or only if they wish to glorify their “righteouness” posturing again.” Too much posturing by the insiduous ‘drama kings/queens’ of the ilk of +Duncan, Iker, Wimberly et al. Their deliberate misrepresentations need to be exposed for what they are–LIES unworthy of men in holy orders. How can they accuse faithful, Prayer Book-compliant fellow-Episcopalians on the other side of the divide of being ‘unitarians’? Even… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Ekklesia just posted this news article about how Americans see God: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060913fourgods.shtml One interesting finding is that people who see God as angry and engaged are more likely to be absolutists, and I would postulate act to prevent the “wrath of God”. I would postulate that those who are seeking to have absolute control over the communion or split lest they are corrupted have a fundamental perspective an angry judgmental God. (Any leader who uses tsunamis to warn of God’s forthcoming judgment and hell must have this perspective). While God might be judgmental, God also heals there are many passages… Read more »

ChrisM
Guest
ChrisM

What is to become of us? (and I do mean US.
Each side just shouts at the other, insisting,’we are the Anglicans, not you’, ‘we are the Christians, not you’, and you are the schismatics, not us’.
I know there is deep hurt but some of the language being used is very offensive ( and, yes, I know ‘they started it’).
I’m watching all this from a distance. It will be a while before we in Ireland have to go through something similar to TEC, and I pray we are spared because we’re so small that these sort of insults would destroy us.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Cheryl, that is so sad, that so many people don’t know that God loves them. Even sadder is that no-one will be triggered to learn how the Church can have gone so wrong and work to fix it, and some will probably take exception to my sadness over this and call me a weak liberal!

laurence.roberts
Guest
laurence.roberts

Glad to see that fr. Jake’s dog Barkley is orthordox !