Thinking Anglicans

reports from Rome

First published Tuesday; updated each day since

Tuesday items

BBC Archbishop begins Vatican visit
Reuters Anglican leader: Don’t panic about immigrants
The Times Ruth Gledhill Archbishop – terrorism down to poverty and ABC in Rome: Let’s all live under Benedict’s Rule

Wednesday additions

Lambeth Palace press release Archbishop- St Benedict challenges modern civilisation to ask itself what it is for and full text of Tuesday’s Speech given at St Anselmo in Rome – ‘Benedict and the future of Europe’

ACNS Archbishop and Cardinal Pray in the Sistine Chapel

Vatican Radio interview with Bill Franklin and another one with Fred Bliss.

Thursday additions

More, including some video, from Ruth Gledhill here.

Lambeth Palace press release Archbishop and Pope share worship: ‘our churches share witness and service’
Archbishop’s greeting to Pope Benedict (full text)
ACNS copy of the press release with several pictures and additional material
Vatican copy of the Common Declaration
Vatican copy of the Pope’s statement

Reuters Pope, Anglican leader discuss obstacles to unity
Associated Press Pope and archbishop of Canterbury acknowledge serious obstacles to closer ties
BBC Archbishop and Pope admit strains

And also…
In an apparent competition for unlikely headlines, this morning we had:
The Times Vatican may relax rules on condoms
Telegraph Pope questions his infallibility

Friday additions

Church Times Williams warns of inhumane future by Rupert Shortt
Telegraph ‘Serious obstacles’ in talks of unity by Jonathan Petre
The Times Church leaders vow to combat terrorism by Ruth Gledhill
Guardian Pope and archbishop seek to shift emphasis from divisive issues by John Hooper and Stephen Bates
Ruth Gledhill’s latest blog entry here.
New York Times Catholic and Anglican Leaders Vow United Effort by Ian Fisher

Saturday additions
‘Secularism, Faith and Freedom’ Archbishop’s lecture given at the pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, Rome and associated press release.

18
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
18 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
15 Comment authors
Anthony IrwingLen BaynesSimon SarmientoCheryl CloughBill Carroll Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
Pluralist
Guest

This trip is bigger on the Archbishop of Canterbury’s radar than it is on the pope’s. The pope is much more interested in Orthodoxy, surely, and it would not surprise me if the pope regards meeting the Archbishop of Canterbury roughly on the same level (maybe a little more) as meeting say the leaders of Methodists or Baptists. This pope has some interesting comments about rationality, revelation and religion, but beyond that there seems to be a distance that is too far. I am reminded of the English Presbyterians who had a parish church outlook even after they became Unitarians.… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Hallejuhah! Shades of the Sanhedrin here. An acknowledgment that no one individual has all the answers and that discussion and debate is healthy (reference to Telegraph article). Similarly, I appreciated Rowan’s concerns about an inhumane future. Again, as with the 2004 SE Asian Tsunami (sorry parts of Africa too) the problems need to be handled by multiple players with multiple vectors of resourcing and multiple gifts and talents. In some ways, trying to heal this planet is like trying to create an ecosystem. A vibrant ecosystem has diversity and niches. Species that specialise in a peculiar location and are not… Read more »

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

Who really cares? If Williams and Ratzinger wish to debate the totally improbable scenario of unity, thats up to them. Its a waste of oxygen.

Why would Anglicans want to join back with Vatican plc in any case – I can’t think of many more disreputable, corrupt, backward looking institutions

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

I couldn’t help but laugh at the line in the Friday ‘Guardian’ article co-written by Stephen Bates, that Mrs. Williams wore a veil! What a hoot! I’m reminded of the little old portuguese women in Montreal’s ‘Plateau’ district who go to mass daily dressed in black wearing head scarves or veils. I have to laugh, otherwise I’d be completely despondent at the thought of a bright intelligent theologian being so obviously apologetic in her attire.

James
Guest
James

Perhaps someone can answer this: If the Pope is welcoming the Archbishop as an Archbishop, doesn’t that mean the Pope considers the Archbishop’s ordination valid? Wouldn’t the Pope be guilty of misleading his flock if he acted as if Anglican ordination was valid when he believed it wasn’t?

Allan
Guest
Allan

I would like to join back if it were possible. I treasure the idea of Tradition and Orthodoxy. I am an Anglican because it was not fashionable in the US to become a Roman Catholic 50 years ago when I made the choice. My reasons for remaining a non-Roman are also suspect. I find the local Roman church less than sophisticated, with poor music. poor architecture, poor preaching and poor taste generally. But I wish I could go home – if home were only more respectable.

Bob
Guest
Bob

Right on Merseymike! The Roman Catholic church’s ban on birth control has caused more human suffering than any corrupt government does. Its coverup of child abuse, its backward, primitive view of women are simply beyond the pale for thinking Anglicans. Not to mention its ridiculous view of sexuality. I am sure 500 years from now the pope will apologize to educated, civilized people for the primitive theology it had in the 21st century just as its recent apology for its sins of the middle ages. But we can’t wait that long. If the Anglican Communion ever tries to reunite with… Read more »

Ley Druid
Guest
Ley Druid

The Church has never said that everything the Pope says is infallible. It may be a convenient straw man to say so, but it isn’t true. As the most recent example of the Pope making a mistake I need only quote his speech to Dr. Williams: “It is our fervent hope that the Anglican Communion will remain grounded in the Gospels and the Apostolic Tradition which form our common patrimony and are the basis of our common aspiration to work for full visible unity.” In spite of the common declaration of Benedict and Rowan of “our commitment to pursue the… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Ley

I agree with you. There was a wonderful article several months ago that commented that many of those in the Anglican Communion relish being there because it is so messy and inclusive. They have chosen to be in a messy communion and have chosen to avoid a homogenised church and theology. This camp are definitely not interested in a purified authoritative impositional church or theology.

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

Cheryl C. describes the Anglican Communion as a “messy communion.” The same is true of the Roman Communion when one goes behind the appearances. For example, read Fr. James Alison’s threads on various Websites. An Oxford grad, a gay convert to Roman Catholicism, a Dominican for many years, a biblical scholar and theologian, Fr. Alison tells his story (and I recomment his March 2006 address to his San Francisco RC gay audience via Google). Vatican pronouncements treat homosexuals as ‘disordered’ heterosexuals. But the pendulum is beginning to swing, according to Fr. Alison, in the direction of recognition that certain persons… Read more »

Kurt
Guest
Kurt

“Right on Merseymike! The Roman Catholic church’s ban on birth control has caused more human suffering than any corrupt government does. Its coverup of child abuse, its backward, primitive view of women are simply beyond the pale for thinking Anglicans. Not to mention its ridiculous view of sexuality. “I am sure 500 years from now the pope will apologize to educated, civilized people for the primitive theology it had in the 21st century just as its recent apology for its sins of the middle ages. But we can’t wait that long. “If the Anglican Communion ever tries to reunite with… Read more »

Ley Druid
Guest
Ley Druid

This entry is falling down the page pretty quickly, but I would like to ask a question before it slips into oblivion. Given all the Anglicans who don’t want to pursue a path towards full visible communion with the Catholic Church, what does it mean when Dr. Williams signs a document with the Pope, “renewing our commitment to pursue the path towards full visible communion”? Nothing? His personal opinion? Why does Williams sign such a document? Is he aware of what others think? Does he think he has the authority to speak of an Anglican commitment? If he is signing… Read more »

J. C. Fisher
Guest
J. C. Fisher

That’s a remarkable post, Ley Druid: you manage to insult BOTH Anglicans, and the Pope, at the same time! ;-/ (Re “The Pope is wrong if he thinks that Catholics and Anglicans share a common aspiration for full visible unity. Just look at Merseymike for one example.” I believe MM is a Quaker now—so he can’t be “one example” of Anglicanism in any way) ***** I got involved in ecumenism 20 years ago, largely because it seemed like differences between the AC and RCC (among other churches) could be bridged in my lifetime: now that looks doubtful, to say the… Read more »

Bill Carroll
Guest
Bill Carroll

We can have full visible unity as soon as the pope claims no immediate jurisdiction outside the diocese of Rome. If he were a symbol of unity with no jurisdictional power outside his own province (like the ABC) I’d be more than willing to embrace papal primacy.

What we should be aiming at is full communion, which does not imply that either the Roman Catholic Church or the Anglican Communion cease being itself.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

John Henry I liked your behind the scenes comments. One thing that amuses me about the Catholics is that they are officially against contraception (with no apparent regard to what a woman can physically, emotionally or spiritually cope with) but women (and their husbands) quietly use contraception, irregardless of decrees from the pulpit. If the Catholic priests were allowed to be married men, and had to deal with first hand the fruit of their loins, they would take a far more realistic attitude to how many children should be coming into the world. Plus one of my pet fumings for… Read more »

Simon Sarmiento
Guest

I think Ley Druid asked a reasonable question about the authority of RW’s signature on a document. Perhaps someone will ask a question in General Synod in February about this matter?

Len Baynes
Guest

It is clear from the tenor of the letters the press select for publication, that they are prejudiced against the ordination of women for the priesthood of The Anglican Church. ‘Ann’s’ letter, (dealing with an article by June Osborne), selected for publication in Sunday’s Telegraph, truly caps this, with: ‘….every time a woman is ordained, the church involved shrinks to the size of a pea.’ Let her come to Stapleford (Cambridge) one Sunday morning and see the size of our ‘pea’. In three years our much loved lady Vicar has nearly doubled the size of our congregations and their giving;… Read more »

Anthony Irwing
Guest
Anthony Irwing

Great to hear of your congregation’s growth, but it may be at the expense of adjacent parishes and may not be attracting converts/newcomers to your church (if your comments about dwindling numbers at those churches are interpreted in a certain way!). Don’t get me wrong: I can understand that certain individuals can be charismatic or just plain good at what they do – regardless of gender – and build support within a parish. Thank God for women priests, thank God for any priest who can win people for Christ by enthusiasm, compassion, humour, communication skills, holiness, training skills etc. etc……