Thinking Anglicans

update on open letter to GAFCON

Changing Attitude reports on blogosphere attacks made against it following its recent press release and letter. That was reported, along with numerous earlier follow-ups here.

See Changing Attitude urges GAFCON leaders to repudiate violence.

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Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto RicoDanMalcolm+Erika BakerColin Coward Recent comment authors
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Tunde
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Tunde

Thank God for this clarification from Colin. I am relieved to learn that the Church of Nigeria is not responsible for the ‘attack’. The only link is a disclaimer I put out in 2005 to protect the Church from someone who claimed to be a knight (he did have pictures and membership card of another diocese, etc) but his bishop said he is a wanted fraudster in the diocese. I did not in any way advocate violence against him. So he assumes someone was able to come across the webpage 3 years later, gets so incensed that he mobilises others… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Tunde:

Do you honestly believe that the following is NOT an incitement to violence?

“We totally rejected and renounce this obnoxious attitude and behaviour [homosexuality], it is devilish and satanic. It comes directly from the pit of hell. It is an idea sponsored by Satan himself and being executed by his followers and adherents who have infiltrated the church. The blood and power of Jesus Christ of Nazareth will flush them out with disgrace and great pains.”

How can any reasonable person deny the violence inherent in those words?

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

Of course the Church of Nigeria encourages violence – because of its homophobic beliefs. They create a climate where violence is acceptable.

Tunde is so ingrained in his homophobia that he doesn’t understand

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Tunde, you may feel you have to defend the archbishop’s honour against what you consider to be slander. Instead, why don’t you try to understand how calling a gay Nigerian a follower of Satan could well get him killed. “I did not in any way advocate violence against him.” True, Tunde, what your Church said of him, presumably a statement you support, was: “We totally rejected and renounce this obnoxious attitude and behaviour [homosexuality], it is devilish and satanic. It comes directly from the pit of hell. It is an idea sponsored by Satan himself and being executed by his… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Violence begots violence. To deny any responsibility that horrors done to individuals after your organization has preached against in a blanket condemnation is the outright height of hypocrisy.

Actions speak louder than words, except when it is words that incite action.

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

By the way, is anybody paying attention to what is happening in Egypt?

Davis Mac-Iyalla
Guest
Davis Mac-Iyalla

The Disclaimer published by the Venerable Tunde in December 2005 was designed with only one purpose – to destroy my reputation and deny me. Tunde continues to lie about me. I did not ‘claim’ to be a knight of the church. I was and am a knight of the church in the Diocese of Otukpo. I was made a knight by Bishop Ugede. My membership card has been scanned and can be seen on the Changing Attitude web site. Tunde has been challenged several times to produce evidence of the charges he has made against me and his claim that… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

Venerable Tunde you have not read our web site carefully. I wrote that I have said the Church of Nigeria is not directly responsible for the attacks on gay men in Nigeria and Togo. I have said that indirectly, the Church of Nigeria is responsible for the attacks. Tunde, you published lies about Davis Mac-Iyalla. You have been asked to produce evidence and you never have. We have produced evidence. Bishop Martyn Minns was asked to contact you to remove the lies from the Church of Nigeria web site. They are still on the site. Davis Mac-Iyalla is not a… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Well done, Tunde.

Now, will your boss stop referring to homosexuals as “cancer” or as “less than human”?

JCF
Guest
JCF

“It is sad that we have Nigerian bishops who get attacked, churches and homes burnt, wives and children beaten up and people do not write to condemn. Sad that in the same restive Port-Harcourt, babies and even grannies have been kidnapped, many killed, many injured mostly due to oil and political gangs yet none noticed.” Tunde, gay Nigerians suffer from all of those SAME senseless attacks as you mentioned above. The difference is, they ALSO get *targeted for their sexual orientation*, which those you list above do NOT. “he is a wanted fraudster” How very easy for you, to slander… Read more »

Cheryl Va.
Guest

Every time examples of violence are given, we write to condemn. Our prayers are for peace, and against violence towards any soul. If some only want to hear some of our prayers, that is a reflection of their filtering content to suit themselves. God’s Sabbath and God’s everlasting covenant of peace is meant to apply to all occupants of this planet. None are meant to be excluded from grace. No one soul’s suffering is more or less legitimate than another’s. Violence is to be condemned, including verbal violence. One form of violence is to misrepresent a soul’s character or to… Read more »

jake333@hotmail.com
Guest

I have often repeated that the Church of Nigeria does not encourage violence. Then I find it curious that when asked about CAN’s involvement in the 2004 Yelwa massacre, in which over 600 Muslims were slaughtered, Abp. Akinola grinned and replied “No comment.” Tunde, I have asked you before, and I will continue to ask you: What, if any, was Abp. Akinola’s involvement in the Yelwa massacre? Last time, you attempted to divert the issue by making a statement about a 2006 incident. That will not do. Please choose your words carefully, as an investigation by the International Criminal Court… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Guest
Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico

“I have often repeated that the Church of Nigeria does not encourage violence” Tunde

Well, don’t be upset, if you keep repeating “the Church of Nigeria does not encourage violence” often and long enough, someone, somewhere is certain to believe you.

Pluralist
Guest

Less significant perhaps, but what about events in Lincolnshire recently?

http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2008/04/shameful.html

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Akintunde Popoola wrote: “Thank God for this clarification from Colin. I am relieved to learn that the Church of Nigeria is not responsible for the ‘attack’.” This is not what Colin Coward wrote. He pointed out that, contrary to the Propaganda running on Stand Firm and such places, Changing Attitude had not claimed the Church of Nigeria was directly involved in this, only indirectly. That was far too civil and charitable of him – and look what he got! Continued slander; Akintunde Popoola wrote: “…for Colin to later apologise.” He didn’t; he gave the lie to the Propaganda over at… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

I’ve been reading the comments about Davis and myself on Stand Firm and T19 as well as here – very instructive. It’s a fantasy land, a parallel universe. People don’t read accurately what we have published. They reinterpret according to what they think we should have written. They have decided we are lying, cheating, scamming, revisionist gay activists. Some think that I orchestrated the posting of the CA press release on 53 blogs simultaneously – I’m now an exponent of comment spamming, apparently. They think Davis has demonstrated sophistication in public relations and technology – they should see the conditions… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

Davis, for how long do you expect a lie to last? The membership card you scanned is of a church in Abuja over 4 hours drive away from Otukpo of which you claim knighthood. Why will a church knight avoid the Cathedral since 2003? Sorry, but despite your pictures I’d rather believe the other knights and the present bishop who is the person that gave me the information and the person you need to clear with if you want the disclaimer removed. No one in the Abuja church recognised your picture. Not even the lady that gave you the card.… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Why will a church knight avoid the Cathedral since 2003?”

Perhaps on the basis of experience, that you, Tunde, might well have ordered him ASSAULTED on sight?

God is not mocked, Tunde. God is never mocked!

Lord have mercy.
Christ have mercy.
Lord have mercy.

Pluralist
Guest

Address the issues, Tunde, not personal attacks. Your actions represent the lowest of the low as well as being tedious and an attempt to move from the issue – the targeted violence.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

I would like to remind you all that The Venerable Akintunde Popoola is not someone speaking on his own behalf, vut the Lord Archbishop of Abuja & Primate of All Nigeria’s official Press Officer.

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Tunde
What you may want to believe or not is entirely irrelevant.
What’s at stake here is what you can PROVE.

You have spent years trying to slander Davis. The reason no-one here believes a word you say is because you have consistently not provided any evidence for what you say.

If you want to convince us – prove your claims.

Colin Coward
Guest

Tunde, no apology from you for having started the chain of events which led to Davis being attacked two Sundays ago. No regret from you for being implicated in threats against another Christian because of the lies you told. No ability to identify with a man who is suffering threats and attacks because he is gay and has had the courage to come out. Davis’s very life is clearly continuing to threaten and disturb the Church of Nigeria. I stopped using the title Sir for Davis because it is a title that led to misunderstanding in other parts of the… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

From the Changing Attitude archive: Davis Mac-Iyalla explained to Bishop Ugede how Knights of the Church were organised in Port Harcourt and that there were Knights in his own family. Prior to Knights being created in Otukpo there had never been knights in Province 3 where Akinola is Archbishop. The retired bishop of Aba, the Rt Revd Prof Uwabu was the first person Davis consulted and the bishop gave Davis a range of materials about Knights. Davis also wrote to the editor of the Good Knight magazine, a letter which was published, informing him that bishop Ugede was seeking information… Read more »

Davis Mac-Iyalla
Guest
Davis Mac-Iyalla

Tunde I should be asking you how long does a lie last? You are the one who is falsely disclaiming and denying me as a member of the church of Nigeria Anglican communion. The main issue here is for everyone including Archbishop Akinola to denounce violence against everyone (LGBT) and to stop hate language that will expose people to any kind of violence. I don’t see you Tunde or the Archbishop doing that instead you divert attention of the public from the main issue to attacking me. I have not stopped using my title or referring to my self as… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

No. I do not want to slander Davis. I am only surprised he is still able to fool many. He fled Otukpo long before he ever heard my name and two years before my disclaimer but it is ok to blame me for it. The disclaimer is clear that he was very active up till 2003. His often repeated ‘proof’ of activities before 2004 should not fool anyone. Colin unknowingly confirms above some of Davis’ pre-2003 fraudulent activities and his influence over the then dying bishop. Davis is the only un-ordained man I heard of who became a ‘Chaplain’ in… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Akintunde Popoola wrote: ”… then Frank Abagnale (know him?) was a real pilot, lawyer and doctor.”

No Tunde, we do not know Frank Abagnale.

But seriously, haven’t you done enough damage to your reputation as it is already, Tunde.

If not, please explain how!

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Tunde

It’s not often I burst out laughing aloud when I read TA, especially not on a Monday morning.

“Anyway, thanks for revealing how he got the uniform for the photographs and why he could dress as a knight – He purchased the material for all the Otukpo knights! The editor mentioned above claims Davis is yet to complete payment for some materials collected from him. Which Knight did not pay up? “

THANK you for the giggle!! You truly are priceless.

Davis Mac-Iyalla
Guest
Davis Mac-Iyalla

How long will you continue like this Tunde? Those reading your slanders are no fools. All they demand from you is proof and you return with more attacks and slander against me. For Jesus’s sake Tunde please tell the truth about Otukpo and the crisis that lasted till the death of Bishop Ugede. If you don’t know ask Archbishop Akinola. He was there himself to dialogue with the breakaway members in the Cathedral. I am sure the Archbishop can explain better than me how his advice to these hostile people was ignored till Bishop Ugede died. I did not flee… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

Tunde began by slandering Davis with the Disclaimer he published, and he is adding more inventions to his slanders against Davis. Those reading this threat will make up their own minds whether Davis or Tunde are telling the truth. Many reading this in the UK, USA and Canada have had the opportunity to speak directly with Davis and question him. They will be able to assess Davis as to whether he is authentic or not. No-one here has had the opportunity to meet and question Tunde. This thread follows the previous one in responding to the Open Letter Changing Attitude… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

Davis, Sorry I have to continue to interact with you publicly. My only attempt to privately get your side of the story before the disclaimer was misrepresented by you. Your problem has to do with finance. Not Tunde’s lies but corroborated information from two serving bishops – Lafia and Otukpo, five teachers including your former assistant, three priests and two Otukpo knights. I am the person who informed them of your supposed homosexuality two full years after you claimed that was the reason you were sacked. Of course some in Otukpo who know you better still find it difficult to… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

Colin 14/04 08 Let’s deal with the allegations of fraud and theft that you continue to make against Davis. You say information has been corroborated by two serving bishops, five teachers, three priests and two Otukpo knights. Although we have repeatedly asked you to produce evidence of theft, you have offered not one item. There was a two year period from the date of the alleged events before you (not anyone else in Otukpo or who knew Davis or had been involved with him) published the allegations in your Disclaimer. Davis was living and worshipping in Port Harcourt, but no… Read more »

Davis Mac-Iyalla
Guest
Davis Mac-Iyalla

Tunde, I didn’t misrepresent your Disclaimer, I denied it because it is all lies invented by you. You have constantly misrepresented me. I have no problem with finance apart from your false allegations. I have asked you to produce evidence. You never have. You say you have corroborating information from the bishops of Lafia and Otukpo as well as five teachers, three priests and two Otukpo knights. What information? Please produce it for the world to see. Of course some in Otukpo find it difficult to believe. You have lied about me, Tunde. Of course many people know me Tunde.… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

On other occasions, I have noted Tunde’s limited competence as a professional communicator. I see in this thread that he has learned at least one lesson from the world of political spin. In hardball politics, the correct response to “you’re fat” is not “I’m not fat,” but rather, “you’re bald.” The topic is the open letter to the GAFFEPRONE bishops calling on htem to eschew inflammatory language which could incite violence. But Tunde has managed to make this a thread about whether or not Davis Mac-Iyalla is or is not an ecclesiastical knight of the Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion).… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

On TA on 7 April 2006 Tunde posted about Davis: “Enquires at the bishop’s office (in Otukpo) were met with denial of any knight or layreader by your names. The Bishop and his staff never heard of you.” “I only accepted your existence when the bishop said one of the older priests told him of a so named ‘son’ of Bp. Ugede.” Now Tunde writes about all these people who knew Davis, including two bishops (one the current bishop of Otukpo), five teachers, three priests and two knights.. Who is lying? Who has reinvented his story and added more lies… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

No need to quote me out of context. The Otukpo people found it hard to believe Davis is homosexual. The context of my April 2006 post was explaining a sequence of events which led to the December 2005 disclaimer. The initial reaction to enquires about a knight and layreader was met by a denial of such a person because the bishop and the staff I spoke with on phone never met such a person. His name was also not on the staff list. He had disappeared two years earlier before they resumed in the office. I did say it was… Read more »

Cassandra
Guest
Cassandra

Hold on to this for you next Trivial Pursuit game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

Frank William Abagnale, Jr. (born April 26, 1948) is a former check confidence trickster, forger and impostor who, for five years in the 1960s, passed bad checks worth more than $2.1 million in 26 countries. During this time, he used at least eight aliases to cash bad checks. Currently he runs Abagnale and Associates, a financial fraud consultancy company. His life story provided the inspiration for the feature film Catch Me if You Can, based on his ghostwritten biography of the same name.

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

Davis you directed me to confirm from the editor. I only told you what he remembered about you. He also remembered you were in a cassock on the day of the investiture, but collected someone’s headgear after the programme to take pictures some of which he still has in his possession. I did not invent all these. Only reporting what I am told. If you want me to get his evidence, answer YES to the following 1. Were you dressed as a knight that day nine people were knighted in Otukpo? 2. Was your name on the programme as one… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Tunde wrote: “No need to quote me out of context. The Otukpo people found it hard to believe Davis is homosexual.”

I suppose the context was your demonizing of Davis Mac-Iyalla? Surely, the demonizing was what the Otukpo people had difficulty believe.

One of the draw backs of a pre Modern culture is that people don’t answer back. This lack of normal feed-back puts all the onus on one’s own l i s t e n i n g abilities…

; = )

Davis Mac-Iyalla
Guest
Davis Mac-Iyalla

Oh Tunde, I hope you will come up with all your slander in one list so I can respond and move forward with other things in life. You sound as if it is not a person that is been knighted but a uniform. I conducted the Services that day and dressed in my Lay Reader Uniform. Is there any offence about that? But later changed to my Knighthood Uniform. Yes the picture was taking with me only putting on my knight cap because there was no time for me to fully go and change during the services as the conductor.… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Tunde, despite your distraction, I’d like to return to the actual topic.

Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to advise your boss to stop using evil, hatefilled, dehumanizing language about homosexual persons?

Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to tell your boss that referring to homosexual persons as “satanic,” as “cancer,” as “less than human” serves to advance neither effective communications nor the Gospel?

A simple “yes” or “no” will suffice.

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

Thanks Davis. I hope I am safe to believe from your answers above that; 1. No. You were not dressed as a knight on the only day people were knighted in Otukpo. 2. No. Your name was not listed as one of the knight-elects 3. Yes. You purchased all materials the knights needed and paid for them all. Somehow without being listed to be knighted, you have pictures and video of your being knighted and surprisingly also had a set of uniforms ready! Congratulations. You must have had a lot of foresight to be so prepared. Why did you not… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

Malcom et al . For the records, Yes I’d give advice if it ever becomes necessary. For now I hardly hear him speak the words ‘homosexual’ or ‘gay’ His major passion now is for those yet to hear the gospel and for tomorrow’s church to still believe and live according to the Scriptures. I am yet to see documents containing the phrases most attributed to him like “less than human”. “Homosexuals are satanic”. (I understand however why you can come to that conclusion but this archbishop does not hate you as such a conclusion will suggest) Most Nigerian Christians still… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Again, Tunde, if I might draw you back to the actual topic here. The topic is not Davis Mac-Iyalla. The Topic is the use of language by some of the GAFCON bishops which is incendiary and could be taken to condone or even to promote violence against homosexual persons – even if not so intended. Therefore, I ask again: Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to advise your boss to stop using evil, hatefilled, dehumanizing language about homosexual persons? Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to tell your boss that… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

What is Tunde trying to do? Prove his earlier accusations against Davis? He started back in 2005 claiming that Davis was fraudulent, wasn’t gay, wasn’t known to the church, wasn’t a member of the Anglican Church, had defrauded the Diocese of Otukpo, was wanted by the police for running off with church and school funds, wielded undue influence over a sick bishop, etc. Tunde most damaging claim has been that Davis disappeared with a lot of diocesan money. When he first made the allegation he was asked to provide evidence. He said that he had documentary evidence but had been… Read more »

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

A simple Yes or No will indicate an acknowlodgement I am not prepared to give. I think my answer above is clear enough.

I remember such questions from my school days ‘Have you stopped beating your parents? Yes or No.’

John Omani
Guest
John Omani

This has been a quite extraordinary thread to read, with allegations of a criminal nature being made by the Director of Communications of one of the world’s largest Anglican churches. If Canon Popoola were in England he would almost certainly have left himself open to being sued for defamation.

Unfortunately for him, such intimidatory behaviour just makes the complaints of the persecuted LGBT Christians seem all the more plausible.

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Tunde So, for the record, pulling the last two posts in your conversation with Malcolm+ together, the exchange is as follows: M: Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to advise your boss to stop using evil, hatefilled, dehumanizing language about homosexual persons? Are you, as a priest and as a communications advisor, prepared to tell your boss that referring to homosexual persons as “satanic,” as “cancer,” as “less than human” serves to advance neither effective communications nor the Gospel? A simple “yes” or “no” will suffice. T: A simple Yes or No will indicate an… Read more »

Colin Coward
Guest

Tunde’s work is piling up while he engages on this thread and continues to make unsubstantiated allegations against Davis with the intention of destroying Davis’s character. In this he has, in the eyes of many succeeded – take a glance at Stand Firm. Most there believe Davis is a liar and Tunde tells the truth. What Tunde is doing is deeply shocking and sinful. What Davis and I – gay men – are, Tunde believes is sinful, which he links with bestiality. It is links such as this, and the notion that being gay is a worse sin than telling… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Just for the record, I am a priest and, in my secular work, a public relations practitioner. Were I asked those two questions, I would have no hesitation giving an unqualified “yes.” Both morally and strategically, I would advise my boss that such tactics, in addition to being sinful, are counterproductive. Now, Tunde does make one fair point. The first question presupposes that the boss has previously used “evil, hatefilled, dehumanizing language.” Since Tunde wants to deny that his boss have ever done such a thing, he perceives that a “yes” to that question would affirm an implication he does… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Malcolm+

“My boss has never used such language, and I certainly would never advise or condone such language.”

You would only be able to make such a statement if it was true. Tunde does not have that option, as the 2 quotes I found within only 5 minutes of searching archives readily show that Akinols DOES use defamatory language and that he DOES condone its use.