THINKING ANGLICANS

Archbishop visits General Convention

Updated Saturday

The Archbishop of Canterbury is at Anaheim, California, where the American General Convention is being held.

Reports of his visit, from ENS:

Global economics a ‘crisis of truthfulness,’ Archbishop of Canterbury tells convention

Describing the global economic downturn as a “crisis of truthfulness,” Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams addressed more than 2,000 people attending a July 8 forum in Anaheim, California, as part of the Episcopal Church’s General Convention.

During the last six to nine months, Williams said, “we have suddenly discovered we have been lying to ourselves. For the last decade or more there has been a steady erosion of trust in our financial life. Our word has not been our bond. We have learned to tolerate high levels of evasion and anti-relational practices.

“We have lied to ourselves about the possibility of profit without risk,” Williams told those gathered at the forum, titled Christian Faithfulness in the Global Economic Crisis.

“We have lied to ourselves consistently about the possibility of limitless material growth in a limited world. We have denied precisely that ubuntu that this convention seeks to venerate and reinforce,” Williams added, referring to the convention theme that emphasizes the interconnectedness of people in community…

Archbishop hears from cross section of Episcopal Church

…In addition to observing the work of the House of Bishops, Williams met with members of the convention’s official youth presence, the House of Deputies president’s council of advice and a small group of lesbian and gay deputies. He also met with provisional and assisting bishops in the four dioceses that are reorganizing after the majority of their members and leadership left the church…

And from Episcopal Café

Anderson and advisors meet with Archbishop Williams

…Anderson said she and her council expressed to Williams their concern that communications and requests to the Episcopal Church are typically addressed only to the Church’s House of Bishops, which does not have authority, on its own, to respond to them.

“We are a church of more than one order of voices,” Anderson said to several reporters after the meeting.

Sally Johnson, Anderson’s chancellor and a deputy from the Diocese of Minnesota, said that the group told Williams it hoped that requests to the Episcopal Church be addressed to the Episcopal Church, rather than to the House of Bishops. “Allow The Episcopal Church to decide for it who decides,” she said.

“No one can respond and bind the Episcopal Church except the General Convention,” Johnson added. “These may seem like fine distinctions to other people, but to us they are foundational…“

The archbishop also attended the opening service where the Presiding Bishop preached.

Dave Walker explains how to follow General Convention on the internet.

Update
The full text of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s meditation at the eucharist is available here.

Archbishop of Canterbury visits Santa Ana preschoolers

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Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

I hope that, in meeting with the young people of TEC, Williams discovers what most of us already know: To the arising generation, the future of this or any church, the issue of a person’s sexuality simply isn’t an issue at all.

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

I hope that, in meeting with the young people of TEC, Williams discovers what most of us already know: To the arising generation, the future of this or any church, the issue of a person’s sexuality simply isn’t an issue at all.

ettu
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ettu

There does seem to be a lack of cultural sensitivity when it comes to how others address TEC in official matters. Indeed the House of Bishops is not as powerful – not as able to bind and unbind – as in other geograpic regions. Would it be considered acceptable for TEC to judge other Provinces solely by TEC standards? I think not. Therefore why must non TEC Bishops et alii insist on not recognizing the limitations of the House of Bishops? Is there not a double standard of political correctness here? Do non-TEC Bishops (at least some of them) require… Read more »

Christopher
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Christopher

I repeat my comments from the Cafe: Thinking of Bp Stephen Sykes thoughtful, historical insights into Anglican polity, governance, ecclesiology, and theology, this statement stuns: Williams told the group that Episcopalians had to be aware that in some parts of the Communion, “bishops only want to hear from other bishops,” Johnson said. Since the time of Sovereign in Parliament, laypersons have always had an active role in the governance, polity, and theology of the CofE, and do so as well in many Churches of this Communion in a number of forms, many of which have a conciliar shape in some… Read more »

Dennis
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Dennis

Bishop Gene Robinson has started blogging again at his site Canterbury Tales from the Fringe: http://www.canterburytalesfromthefringe.blogspot.com He had an interesting comment that no one seems to have noticed so far: “We also had a disturbing private (no one in the gallery) conversation in the House of Bishops that led me to feel discouraged about what lies ahead. That conversation is private, so I can’t detail it, but there seems to be a kind of belligerent attitude toward the House of Deputies by some of our bishops. Their vision of the episcopate is way too “high and mighty” for my taste,… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

“Williams told the group that Episcopalians had to be aware that in some parts of the Communion, “bishops only want to hear from other bishops,” Johnson said.”

Well that explains a lot, doesn’t it? I say, too bad for them.

And I agree with Bonnie Anderson – the ABC has had quite a few years to learn about how TEC operates through General Convention. It is inexcusable and rude not to respect and understand our polity. Is it arrogance or ignorance? Or both? Go home, Fuzzyface, and MYOB.

Lister Tonge
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Lister Tonge

‘Go home, Fuzzyface, and MYOB.’

I understand the Archbishop is here at GC because he was invited to come.

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

“I understand the Archbishop is here at GC because he was invited to come.” Yes. And since he seems still to think the HOB is the only game in town, he’s not learned much, has he? I’m glad he met with youth, with glbt people, with Bonnie Anderson et alia. I hope he has learned from these encounters, but it doesn’t much look like it. I don’t have a lot of respect for someone whose first hard decision resulted in betraying his friend. I don’t have a lot of respect for someone who treats ex-bishop Dunkin’ as if he were… Read more »

Mark Wharton
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Mark Wharton

Pat O’Neill, I think you make an error. I am a young person and opposed to the whole liberal agenda. (I am 18). I worship in a Church where we draw a large number of young people, who come for both the orthodox theology and the superb music. In my conversations with other young people, they are not only, the first to point out the traditional teaching of the Church but they are the best at defending it. Never assume that because we are young, we are liberal. On another issue for the wider church; the move to drive out… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Mark:

I direct your attention to the following links:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/05/05/cnn-poll-most-americans-oppose-gay-marriage-but-those-under-35-back-it.html

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/gay-marriage-by-numbers.html

Assuming that TEC is a fair microcosm of US society…and I see no reason to assume otherwise…then our younger generation is definitely more amenable to gay rights than their parents and grandparents.

That is definitely the case in my own, very middle class, very middle of the road, suburban parish.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

Mark:

I direct your attention to the following links:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/05/05/cnn-poll-most-americans-oppose-gay-marriage-but-those-under-35-back-it.html

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/gay-marriage-by-numbers.html

Assuming that TEC is a fair microcosm of US society…and I see no reason to assume otherwise…then our younger generation is definitely more amenable to gay rights than their parents and grandparents.

That is definitely the case in my own, very middle class, very middle of the road, suburban parish.

choirboyfromhell
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choirboyfromhell

“Pat O’Neill, I think you make an error. I am a young person and opposed to the whole liberal agenda. (I am 18). I worship in a Church where we draw a large number of young people, who come for both the orthodox theology and the superb music. In my conversations with other young people, they are not only, the first to point out the traditional teaching of the Church but they are the best at defending it. Never assume that because we are young, we are liberal. On another issue for the wider church; the move to drive out… Read more »

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“opposed to the whole liberal agenda.” Which would be what? “the orthodox theology” Careful how you use that word. It might not mean what you have been led to believe it means. You sound an awful lot like me when I was 18. Sorry to be all “benevolent elder” about this, but I fell out with the Anglican Church of Canada, the issue was OOW, and it seemed very much like the Church didn’t “get it”, and was making the decision to ordain women based on some sort of modern “rights based” agenda. So I went nowhere for 18 years.… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

You’re of course welcome to your opinions and faith perspective, Mark W…

…but for your age cohort, you are *tiny minority*.

Nothing wrong with that: we LGBT people have ALWAYS had to adjust to being a tiny minority! 😉

You never know when God may say something you haven’t heard before, Mark: keep listening! (And, with God’s help, I will too—God bless!)

Christopher Shell
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Christopher Shell

Pat O’Neill makes a clear mistake. The stated views of any group of people are irrelevant. All that is relevant is their reasons for coming to those views, their ability to articulate such reasons and to demonstrate that they can think for themselves while doing so. Because it is axiomatic that any group of people will go along to a greater than average extent with the prevailing orthodoxy of their own culture/subculture. No thinking person could possibly dismiss the question of how that orthodoxy arises in the first place. If the media has a certain degree or proportion of influence,… Read more »

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“All that is relevant is their reasons for coming to those views” “No thinking person could possibly dismiss the question of how that orthodoxy arises in the first place.” “the media” Can we take it from this that your idea is that all the modern acceptance of gay people is a social trend, driven by the media? “Liberals”? Other groups? Whom? Some sort of political correctness run amok? I admit, that certainly is the idea I’ve gotten over the past several years corresponding with you. And also that the “truth” about homosexuality is being suppressed by some very powerful people… Read more »

Christopher Shell
Guest
Christopher Shell

I think many people tend to conform to their own culture, and peer pressure / desire for acceptance seem to be very powerful forces. It is, for example, unthinkable (but why?) to many Americans that their constitution or declaration of independence might be wrong in any respect. It is also unthinkable to some that the Christian ethic is not the same thing as the modern American ethic (involving liberation, personal expression and fulfilment) with which they are familiar. Of course, there are plenty of differences between them, just as it is equally absurd to imagine that God is an Englishman.… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Christopher, this is more or less an answer to my first question. You might be surprised to find that I agree with all but the last paragraph. I sometimes humourously refer to the advertising industry as the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. But you have not answered my other two questions, and your last paragraph raises this: Do you believe that AIDS is evidence of the, for want of a better word, “wrongness” of homosexuality? I would find that hard to maintain, given that incidence is higher in other groups, like heterosexual Africans, for instance. If you answer “yes” to… Read more »