Thinking Anglicans

more from Southwark Cathedral

Updated yet further Thursday afternoon

An audio recording of the Presiding Bishop’s sermon is now available on the cathedral website, along with the text.
Go to this page
.

Also, in the afternoon, the Dean of Southwark made comments about the morning event in his sermon, text here.

This morning there is some comment about the event in the Diary column of the Guardian. Read that over here.

Updates

ENS reports from the TEC Executive Council meeting now proceeding in Maryland, that Lambeth Palace tells presiding bishop not to wear symbol of office.

In the week before her visit, the presiding bishop said, Lambeth pressured her office to provide evidence of her ordination to each order of ministry.

“This is apparently a requirement of one of their canons about the ministry of clergy from overseas,” she said.

The presiding bishop said both the ordination and mitre issues put the Very Rev. Colin Slee, Southwark’s dean, “in a very awkward position.”

She called the requirements “nonsense” and said, “It is bizarre; it is beyond bizarre.”

A commenter on another thread has linked to a picture showing the Presiding Bishop carrying her mitre.

The full text of the Overseas and Other Clergy (Ministry and Ordination) Measure 1967 can be found here, and further context can be found at this TA article from February 2005 (scroll down to Question 56 and follow the links).

A comment from the thread below has been republished in this article at Episcopal Café:

jdd commenting on the story that the Archbishop of Canterbury gave the Presiding Bishop permission to preach and preside at Southwark Cathedral on the condition that she not cover her hair…

As to precedents:

Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold wore a mitre at Southwark Cathedral in 2006, see Griswold wore mitre at Southwark.

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori wore a mitre when she preached at Salisbury Cathedral in 2008, see Salisbury diocese welcomes Presiding Bishop, Sudanese bishops for pre-Lambeth hospitality initiative. See this picture.

Ruth Gledhill has written about this on her blog, see Bishop crossed in mitre row. Another picture there too.

The story in The Times is headlined Female US bishop forced to carry mitre in ‘snub’ by Lambeth Palace, but that is behind a paywall.

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Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“Rowan Williams, Archbish of Canterbury, birthday boy (60 yesterday), who couldn’t stop her preaching but said she could not wear the symbol of her office, or carry a bishop’s crosier. Something to do with women bishops not yet being allowed in the C of E.”

Aking
Guest
Aking

That being the case I either would not have showed up or would have preached in street clothes. That indignity suggests not that she is a woman but that she is an invalidly consecrated bishop. Did ++Rowan really mean that? If so we in TEC might as well leave.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

There are times when it seems that TEC could have no better friend than the present Archbishop of Canterbury. His political astuteness is quite remarkable.

Also, methinks the Dean of Southwark Cathedral was making a veiled criticism here:
“I happened to be at Lambeth Palace on Friday where I collected the Archbishop’s licence for the Presiding Bishop to officiate, I have kept him informed at all times, I would not act without courtesy, nor he towards us.”

“Towards us.”

Get it?

The Dean’s unspoken implication is that the Archbishop of Canterbury did act “without courtesy” — towards another.

Fr John
Guest
Fr John

Goran, Is this a fact? If so then where is Christian love and coutesy at Lambeth. I have listened to both audio tapes of her speech to Our Scottish Episcopal Synod, and her sermon at Southwark. Both full of Christian love, and a passion for mission to all God’s children. She visited St Mary’s Episcopal cathedral where I worship with my partner. The chaplain told us how very friendly and kind she was. We need more of her kind as Apostles in our church. Maybe this worries the ABC. The Dean of Southwarks sermon at evensong on that day is… Read more »

Dennis
Guest
Dennis

More of the same, really. Optional titles for the story might include “British Primate pours crude oil on American bishop’s sermon” or “British Primate washes up a tar ball on oceanographer American bishop’s visit.”
Not quite a full blown ecological disaster in this case but it further strains relations.

jdd
Guest
jdd

Aking, No, absolutely not! That is what Williams, Wright, and all the others want. In fact, that is what they need–that is, for TEC to leave. Our leaving will free them up to pursue their other–as yet unnamed, but completely transparent–goals. All of these gestures on Williams’ part are passive forms of aggression intended to push TEC and its concerns slowly out of view, under the rug, and to thereby dilute them. If TEC genuinely believes in the legitimacy of its actions and its witness, it cannot allow pride to push it away. That would be to succumb to the… Read more »

karen macqueen+
Guest
karen macqueen+

Someone, perhaps Simon, would do the Communion a great favor by making sure that what Hugh Muir wrote in his Guardian article is true: i.e. that Rowan Williams did not permit the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church to wear her mitre or carry a crozier at Southwark Cathedral. I can only hope that Muir is wrong. If, on the other hand, it is true, the implications of Rowan’s action can hardly be underestimated. He would have insulted the only female Primate in the Anglican Communion. Indeed, he would have insulted women bishops, women clergy, and the Episcopal Church. What… Read more »

Carl Bell
Guest

What a wonderful legacy Rowan Willams is creating for himself in the history books.

Carl

Deacon Charlie Perrin
Guest
Deacon Charlie Perrin

From the PB’s sermon:
“It’s hard work to get to the point where you’re able and willing to see the Lord of love in the odorous street person next to you in the pew. It can be just as hard to find him in the unwelcoming host.”

That last sentence takes on much more meaning in light of the restrictions the ABC placed upon her visit.

I will take her over anyone in the “hair on fire” crowd any day.

Chris Smith
Guest
Chris Smith

This was an outrageous offense to Presiding Bishop Katharine! It is shameful and unethical behavior to deny her the use of her crosier and mitre knowing that she is the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in America. It carries serious implications about the moral fiber of the Archbishop of Canterbury. If Rowan Williams is so small in his behavior toward this remarkable woman, he is NOT the man I once thought he was. This behavior is unacceptable and I do not accept the lack of respect that he showed her. I now believe Rowan really does consider himself a… Read more »

Steve Lusk
Guest
Steve Lusk

If the Archbishop did indeed stipulate that the Primate of the Episcopal Church could not preach in a bishop’s attire at Southwark, he needs to take a lesson in protocol from King Edward VII. As crown prince, the future king gave King Kalakaua of Hawaii precedence over the Crown Prince of Germany. To paraphrase Bertie’s response to Wilhelm’s objection, “Either the brute is a bishop, or she’s a common or garden woman; and if the latter, what’s she doing here?”

jdd
Guest
jdd

A quote from Williams’ one-time teacher seems apropos (a Scottish Episcopalian, no less): “My own experience is Anglican; and it is almost a commonplace to remark that in practice the Anglican Communion, and especially the Church of England, is the least authoritarian of the Churches. Yet the ecclesiastical temper encourages its leaders, encourages also those who undertake the spiritual direction of its members, to allow the end to justify the means. ‘It is expedient that one man should die for the people’: in these words of Caiaphas we catch an indelible impression of the attitude of mind of the responsible… Read more »

faithful tadpole
Guest
faithful tadpole

In fairness to +Rowan, and without knowing the facts: here in Ireland it is customary for the bishop to only carry his staff in his diocese – so for us a visiting bishop would not do so, and no disrespect intended. But it’s very hard to be a generous gracious host while getting knotted in red – or purple – tape.

Martin Reynolds
Guest
Martin Reynolds

She is in the best company – Bishop Gene Robinson was also refused the mitre, as have all women bishops who “formally” ask.

The pastoral staff rarely appeared outside the prelates own particular jurisdiction, or have things changed lately?

I thought it charming when I read Simon reporting that she carried her mitre – a lovely touch – other women priests at the celebration must have keenly felt the anticipation as she bore it in procession – almost as an offering!

I remember Mother Pattie who processed with her mitre and crozier carried before her – very swish!!

The Rev. Randall Keeney
Guest
The Rev. Randall Keeney

Dear Friends,

I’m sorry if I hurt any feelings, but Archbishop Williams’ tacky behavior is rendering him irrelevant. Most of us in the states consider his words and actions as trustworthy as Tony Hayward’s or Pope Ratzinger’s word and actions. He has forfeited his integrity.

ordinary vicar
Guest
ordinary vicar

Chris – I beg to differ; Archbishop Rowan does not owe Bishop Katharine. We don’t yet have women bishops in the C of E and we won’t have until we decide to have them. That means that she cannot exercise episcopal functions here, and taking part in a service whilst wearing a mitre is an episcopal function. ++Katharine is a graceful respecter of boundaries, as everything she’s written makes clear, and Dean Colin Slee’s elegant solution to this both observes and powerfully draws attention to the restrictions. Even if we had women bishops she would not be carrying a crozier… Read more »

Neil
Guest
Neil

I guess the ABC must be under pressure about the present limits of the ministry of women within the CofE which might explain why the license Colin Slee obtained had various restrictions. However, not carrying a crozier is only the same restriction as would happen to any visiting bishop, of whatever sex. I think you’ll find it is only the Diocesan Bishop carries the crozier within his jurisdiction – so possibly there is no need for people to get quite so worked up on this. But this would not apply to the mitre…

Geoff
Guest

I must say I don’t know where this notion of the mitre signifying “orders” and the crozier “jurisdiction” came from, but it seems to be one of those liturgical urban myths like laying aside the maniple to preach or 39 cassock buttons for the Articles.

Chris Smith
Guest
Chris Smith

To the poster in this thread named “Ordinary Vicar”: I can understand your point about a bishop not carrying a crosier outside of their own diocese, although in America when the Presiding Bishop visits the hundreds of small and large diocese, she does carry her crosier as The Presiding Bishop. Never-the-less, I do see your point about the crosier being identified only in a given jurisdiction. Where I disagree with you is that I believe the Archbishop of Canterbury owed Presiding Bishop Katharine the respect of her office as a prelate from another country whose traditions DO indeed consecrate WOMEN… Read more »

Rodney
Guest
Rodney

With all due respect to visiting bishops respecting diocesan boundaries, ++KJS is not a diocesan, she is our Presiding Bishop and the Primate of our Province. In what world does another Anglican Province get to dictate what symbols of office are appropriate for a visiting Primate? I would hope the next time Archbishop Williams visits someplace in The Episcopal Church that he is asked to carry his miter and wear no other symbols of his office as Primate, too. After all, he has no authority or jurisdiction here just as she has none there. But, oh wait, this isn’t really… Read more »

Thomas+
Guest
Thomas+

Correct me if I’m wrong, but ++KJS does not usually carry a crozier, because as Presiding Bishop and Primate, she usually carries the Primatial Staff, a symbol of her office not her episcopal standing. She is entitled to carry the crozier of the Convocation of Episcopal Churches in Europe, as it is her de iure jurisdiction, however the European crozier, I believe, is carried by the Bishop-in-Charge. Anyway, pettiness for pettiness sake… Someone from Lambeth should now write Rome telling them to forgo the Pope’s (papal) white or (cardinal) red robes. A black or purple cassock should do when he… Read more »

David | Dah•veed |
Guest
David | Dah•veed |

Gang, this is not new. She has visited England before and the rules are always the same. At least she presided, +Gene is never allowed more than to speak, and also not vested as a bishop. No longer a bishop ordinary in the normal sense*, +Katharine does not carry a crozier, but a primatial staff. And that would be inappropriate in another primate’s jurisdiction. *She is the bishop ordinary for the US armed forces and of the Convocation of Episcopal Churches in Europe, but she has two bishop suffragans who tend those flocks for her. Should she ever get around… Read more »

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

Neither mitre nor ‘crozier’ are mention in the BCP (1662). They are modern innovations in the life of the C of E -especially the mitre. Even today, not all bishops use one, in UK.

Justin
Guest
Justin

Please, stop the anti Rowan rhetoric. I’ve seen a handful of foreign bishops (including the Primate of Brazil) at Southwark Cathedral and none of them have had mitre or crozier. It’s not a snub, it’s English canon law. As an American in London, the anguished cries of the Americans on this blog are absurd.

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

remember Mother Pattie who processed with her mitre … carried before her – very swish!!

Posted by: Martin Reynolds on Tuesday, 15 June 2010 at 9:43pm BST

So did the great, modest, John V Taylor (if my memory serves me right)…

Pantycelyn
Guest
Pantycelyn

‘Whatever may survive the demythologization of the highly questionable myth of apostolic succession,’

Well said. Needs saying again and again. Especially as its fruits are so dire (as we read in this thread, and thread after thread).

Bill Dilworth
Guest

“I must say I don’t know where this notion of the mitre signifying “orders” and the crozier “jurisdiction” came from, but it seems to be one of those liturgical urban myths like laying aside the maniple to preach or 39 cassock buttons for the Articles.”

I dunno – abbots and abbesses use croziers, and I thought that that was because of their “jurisdiction” over their monastic community.

cryptogram
Guest
cryptogram

ordinary vicar is perfectly correct. In the mid 1980s there was an American woman priest temporarily on the staff at Lincoln Cathedral. IIRC it was just before the CofE had begun to ordain women at all, but had agreed to the ordination of women deacons. She was therefore permitted to officiate as a deacon only, as it was the highest order we had in common. It seems that this is the rule observed at Southwark. Last year, Bishop Mary of El Camino Real preached at the Sunday Eucharist at Gloucester Cathedral. I believe that she wore the mitre as she… Read more »

Bob McCloskey
Guest
Bob McCloskey

Historical note: The Primatial Cross of TEC was given to Presiding Bishop Arthur Lichtenberger by the Bishop of South Florida, Henry Louttit, Sr., on the occasion of the consecration of two suffragans for that diocese [in the early 1960’s]. I witnessed the occasion as a seminarian from that diocese. At the time there were those who considered it an ultra high church innovation. On the heels of Henry Knox Sherrill’s presiding bishopric, it was a big deal – coupled with the PB wearing gold cope and mitre. It has been used by our PBs ever since.

Prior Aelred
Guest

Dom Gregory Dix surmised that the miter originated from the Phrygian cap worn by deaconesses (look at the cap worn by French Revolutionaries or on old US silver dollars). Once an honorary grant to certain abbots, it have become universal for abbots in the West. (Headgear in the Eastern churches is too specialized a topic for me — but I will point out that one website identified as churches in the Apostolic Succession being recognizable because their bishops wore funny hats). Croziers are generally a sign of jurisdiction (but there are no official rules for this that I know of… Read more »

Marshall Scott
Guest

You know, I’m not upset about matters of style and etiquette. I’m not even all that concerned about “demythologizing apostolic succession,” as I long ago came to see our orders as calls to vocational *functions*, not vocational *status.* That said, I think this does call us to be honest about what we mean and don’t mean when we speak of bishops being ordained “for the whole Church,” and perhaps even about the oft repeated statement that part of what marks a communion is mutual recognition of ministries. In North America we have that more effectively and more meaningfully (or at… Read more »

Edgar Wallace
Guest
Edgar Wallace

Does the Archbishop of Canterbury carry his Metropolitical Cross in the United States?

Fr Mark
Guest

If we are stuck on the minutiae of episcopal insignia, I suppose the pectoral cross and ring would have been forbidden the Presiding Bishop too?

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

I guess it is far too easy to infer a common sensical bad-trashy attitude from RW towards PB KJS, since after all, he continues to hold deeply bad-trashy attitudes or views of TEC as a province honestly dominated by a progressive Anglican believer majority. Another type of public shoddiness may stem from RWs consistent failure to take any effective (non-flat-earth) stand for Anglican big tents and/or Anglican progressive believers? Ah, how whole, how pure are RWs motives, intentions? RW surely makes automatic pilot claims every time he wants extra credit from queer folks for his allegedly believing in their ‘innate… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

I’m glad to hear from some English correspondents that the “no mitre” edict was not a slight at +KJS, but rather at any bishop from outside the UK. Seems to me a daft rule, but if rude, it is at least evenhandedly so. As to croziers – it is my understanding (from former Canadian Primate Michael Peers) that a bishop may, from time to time, bear their crosier outside their diocese, but that the opening of the crook would be to the rear rather than the front. I suppose one would have to carry a Primatial / Metropolitical cross backward… Read more »

MrsBarlow
Guest
MrsBarlow

It’s true, the C of E does not permit women to officiate as bishops but only as priests, wherever they come from. This is particularly odd of course as the Lambeth Conference has twice been hosted in England with women present as bishops, and noone seems to deny they are actually bishops. The lack of hospitality in the C of E has been IMHO one of the saddest casualties of the long road towards the full ordination of women. What I’ve never understood are two parallel processes: anyone ordained in a province which has female bishops usually has to submit… Read more »

ordinary vicar
Guest
ordinary vicar

“In what world does another Anglican Province get to dictate what symbols of office are appropriate for a visiting Primate?”

In every province, should they choose it.

It arises out of the question of jurisdiction which is not an unimportant one, otherwise we would not all be so exercised about cross-border incursions, would we?

OV

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

‘(Dean Slee) said that “some Anglicans will decide to walk a separate path,” but said that he believed Southwark “will walk the same path” as the Episcopal Church. “Their actions in recent months have been entirely in accord with the Anglican ways of generosity and breadth,” he said. “They have tried to ensure everyone is recognized as a child of God. They have behaved entirely in accord with their canon laws and their freedom as an independent province of the church, not imposing or interfering with others with whom they disagree but proceeding steadily and openly themselves.” ‘ – Episcopal… Read more »

Dennis
Guest
Dennis

It gets worse: reports from the Executive Council meeting are that there was pressure from Lambeth for our Presiding Bishop to offer up proof of her ordination to the three levels of ministry, which she (rightly) called “nonsense” and “bizarre.” http://www.episcopalchurch.org/79425_122968_ENG_HTM.htm Lambeth and Rowan know FULL WELL that she is properly ordained. And if our churches are still in communion (which I am beginning to doubt) then this sort of rude behavior is uncalled for because the rules of the CofE are to recognize that other national churches in the Anglican Communion are responsible for the validity of their own… Read more »

Paul Davison
Guest

I think perhaps it is time to accept that the Archbishop, by his actions, has broken communion with the Episcopal Church and move on.

Bill Dilworth
Guest

“Neither mitre nor ‘crozier’ are mention in the BCP (1662).”

Oh, well, then – away with the marks of Popery! Back to the north end of the altar!

Sheesh.

“They are modern innovations in the life of the C of E -especially the mitre.”

No, their general disuse was the innovation. The CofE used them since early days until after the Reformation. And, I’ve read, their use did not completely die out even then. They were worn by the bishops at the coronatios of Henry VIII, Edward VI, and Elizabeth I – and may have been worn at that of Charles I.

David da Silva Cornell
Guest
David da Silva Cornell

“It gets worse: reports from the Executive Council meeting are that there was pressure from Lambeth for our Presiding Bishop to offer up proof of her ordination to the three levels of ministry, which she (rightly) called “nonsense” and “bizarre.” http://www.episcopalchurch.org/79425_122968_ENG_HTM.htm“ As absurd as all of that is, there is even an internal contradiction in Lambeth Palace’s approach, namely: If they were unable to license her to perform episcopal functions in England, and if they weren’t going to permit her to wear episcopal insignia such as the mitre, why would they even care about obtaining “proof of ordination” at anything… Read more »

Bill Dilworth
Guest

Actually, what I should have said is that *of course* the mitre is authorized by the BCP 1662 – in the Ornaments Rubric.

jnwall
Guest
jnwall

I am no defender of the ABC but as someone who did apply for and was granted permission to function sacramentally in England, I can say that I DID have to go through the same process asked of our PB. Except for the episcopal part, of course. That is, I had to apply to the ABC’s office, formally, for a license to function as a priest by filling out a form and submitting with the form copies of my “letters of orders,” an English term for what we in the USA call ordination certificates. I was living at the time… Read more »

William Henry Benefield
Guest
William Henry Benefield

What did our previous primate wear in Southwark Cathedral when he presided 2006? Are there any photos of the procession out in Anglican Land?

http://www.wfn.org/2006/04/msg00239.html

karen macqueen+
Guest
karen macqueen+

Dennis: “But I am just dying to hear Rowan’s fawning defenders here come up with yet another excuse for this latest insult to the Episcopal Church.” Yah Dennis! I have been reading some of these postings with amazement. Evidently, we are supposed to accept that a validly elected and consecrated bishop in a province in the Anglican Communion, and the Primate of her Church cannot preside and preach in England unless she forfeits the use of the emblems universally recognized in the Churches as designating a bishop. Why? 1. It is supposed to be acceptable that this is done because… Read more »

Jerry Hannon
Guest
Jerry Hannon

“In the week before her visit, the presiding bishop said, Lambeth pressured her office to provide evidence of her ordination to each order of ministry.” – Episcopal Life Online Until this point, I was content to merely focus on the hypocrisy of the Lambeth Curia and Rowan Williams regarding their lack of even-handedness regarding well know border crossing by Rwanda, Uganda, Nigeria, and Kenya. Matters of mires worn, or not, or croxiers/primatial staffs carried, or not, might be merely silly, as long as this was truly universally applied to visiting bishops. But this shocking revelation goes way over the top… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest

I’m beginning to wonder if what we’re seeing in Williams is panic. TEC won’t be commanded, won’t be bullied, and won’t be mastered by a foreign bishop. Here comes the PB, which even Williams couldn’t refuse without a major incident, and he hears squawking from his con-evo screen-from-the-world that she is coming to plant TEC missions. He’s aware he’ll lose most of his church if that happens – and what good will it do an archbishop to gain all the Global South and yet lose the soul of his own national church? The frightened beast is bellowing and charging toward… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

What tickled me , was the letter from the dissenting ” conservative ” Southwark clergy who cannot agree what the Bible has to say on the meaning of being born again, saved, the eucharist etc.

Francis Gardom should inspect what the other clergy do with the communion elements after their services!

They claim they are Biblically orthodox and Bishop Schori is not!

They make the rules for other people and bend them their own.

Terence Dear
Guest
Terence Dear

In her sermon, the PB said: “What makes us so afraid of the other? There’s something in our ancient genetic memory that ratchets up our state of arousal when we meet a stranger – it’s a survival mechanism that has kept our species alive for millennia by being wary about strangers.” Isn’t it precisely this inborn fear that all religions seek to challenge? …. Hindu – The narrow-minded ask, ‘Is this one of our tribe, or is he a stranger?’ But to those who are of a noble disposition, the whole world is but one family. Muslim – O God,… Read more »