Thinking Anglicans

Anglican Covenant: two more diocesan rejections, one in favour

Today the dioceses of Bradford, Chelmsford and Hereford voted on the Anglican Covenant. Chelmsford and Hereford rejected the proposal, Bradford voted in favour.

The running totals are therefore 13 against, and 8 for.

In Chelmsford the voting was (Corrected):

Bishops: 2 for, 1 against, 1 abstention
Clergy: 27 for, 29 against, 7 abstentions
Laity: 31 for, 30 against, 3 abstentions

In Hereford the voting was:

Bishops: 2 for, 0 against
Clergy: 15 for, 15 against, 1 abstention
Laity 21 for, 23 against, 1 abstention

In Bradford the voting was:

Bishop: 1 for, 0 against
Clergy: 15 for, 9 against, 2 abstentions
Laity: 16 for, 15 against, 3 abstentions

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Concerned Anglican
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Concerned Anglican

Surely, Bradford was considered to be one of the dioceses most likely to vote for the Covenant? Nevertheless, even there it only narrowly squeaked through … hardly a resounding endorsement for what is now indisputably a profoundly divisive idea.

Fr Mark
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Fr Mark

Naughty old bishops, everywhere voting preponderantly for what most other sane people are clearly against… it does look like the Church needs reform at the top, doesn’t it?

Father Ron Smith
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In these three results, it would seem that the House of bishops might be backing up Archbishop Rowan. However, in Chelmsford and Hereford, at least, they do not have the ‘other’ numbers. Bradford may be predictably in favour, because of its close proximity to York, but Urim and Thummim may not be working in favour of the Covenant. The ABC and the ABY may have to put on their thinking caps to devise some non-synodical way through if they are intent on having ‘Their way’. I remember being told at theological college that there was only One Way – ‘My… Read more »

c.r.seitz
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c.r.seitz

Can someone confirm?

Of the total number of votes cast are the pro-covenant votes about 90 more than anti?

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

The relatively high number of abstentions in the Covenant debates interests me. Are people genuinely perplexed as to what it will really entail and what, in practice ,it will mean..?

Simon Sarmiento
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Some aggregate statistics on voting can now be found at
http://blog.noanglicancovenant.org/2012/03/voting-statistics.html

rjb
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rjb

Since you ask, c.r. seitz, by my count (which excludes two dioceses for which no data is available), there are so far 721 votes in favour (49.22%), 663 against (45.26%), and 81 abstentions (5.53%). That gives the pro-covenant party a margin of just 58 votes, and this lead slips to 30 if you exclude the bishops.

I’m now going to give up statistics for Lent, and I swear I won’t mention another percentage until this whole business is over.

RPNewark
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RPNewark

What I would find interesting is some figures on the numbers of people entitled to attend and vote. It seems to me that some of the attendances are quite small but, without data on the size of each house in each diocese, it is difficult to gauge the level of interest that this reference to the dioceses is generating. Is such data readily available? If so, can someone point me to a source?

Jeremy
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Jeremy

Nice try, Telegraph, at attempting to awaken sympathy for the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Also, look at how badly that article conflates the Church of England with the Anglican Communion.

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

If there is any truth in the rumours that ++Rowan will retire in year or so, the likely defeat or at least the half hearted and divisive approval of the Covenant is going to mark a new low in his term of office. How will history judge him? I cannot but think that it will regard him as much a failure as his predecessor (though hopefully ++Rowan will keep his mouth more firmly shut). What a disappointing end to something which started in such hope. But perhaps the whole thing was impossible anyway. The furore surrounding his appointment from the… Read more »

Jean Mary Mayland
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Jean Mary Mayland

The Diocese of Sodor and Man also rejected the Covenant on Thursday evening ( 2 March)

Voting

Bishops For 1 Against 0
Clergy For 5 Against 12
Laity For 21 Against 15 Abstain 1

Concerned Anglican
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Concerned Anglican

Overall percentages are interesting but irrelevant. But thanks for taking the time and effort to calculate them.

However, my guess is that by the time this Covenant voting exercise is finished total numbers will also be against, even taking into account the bishops who have little choice but to vote in favour, with a few brave and notable exceptions.

Simon Sarmiento
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If anybody else missed the earlier reporting of the Sodor and Man voting here
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/005393.html
do go back there and notice the two comment items that are linked in the same article.
The piece by Liam Beadle is particularly good.

Tobias Haller
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Tobias Haller

I echo Conerned Anglican’s comment that the “overall” figures may be interesting — insofar as they show that among those eligible to vote the Covenant has not achieved a majority — but that the voting in synods ia by orders, and resolutions must be adopted in all three orders within a diocese so as to determine the diocesan “vote.” The real “vote” at this point, in terms of the process, remains at 13 against, 8 for. This voting system is an essentially conservative process, and surely appropriate for something portrayed as “way forward” for Anglicanism.

Edward Prebble
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Edward Prebble

I do have some sympathy for the diocesan bishops. When a diocesan synod votes in line with their bishop, he or she is accused of dictatorial leadership. When the synod votes the other way, they have “lost all credibility and should resign”. These results, which seem I trust to be leading in the direction of rejecting the covenant, illustrate one of the finest things about the Anglican tradition. We tend to place authority on The-Bishop-in-Synod. If the bishop cannot persuade synod, that does not mean that s/he has lost credibility, simply that s/he has not persuaded the synod. That is… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

“Can someone confirm? Of the total number of votes cast are the pro-covenant votes about 90 more than anti?”

crs, President Al Gore (!) can tell you what this kind of reasoning is worth. Whether it’s the Electoral College, or vote-by-orders, the system is what it is.

As for the “How will history judge +++Rowan?” question, I think the die was cast his first year w/ Jeffrey John. Chickens -> Roost

Dan BD
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I do so wish the House of Bishops would stop this whole “whip” culture. Hoorah for +Nick Sarum!

Malcolm French+
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Edward Prebble said: “I do have some sympathy for the diocesan bishops. When a diocesan synod votes in line with their bishop, he or she is accused of dictatorial leadership. When the synod votes the other way, they have “lost all credibility and should resign”.” Well there certainly have been some “dictatorial” bishops who have tried to force the Covenant through with limited debate and only proCovenant information provided. About eight of them, the data suggests. Seriously though, in every case where synod members have been provided with information both in favour of and opposed to the Covenant, and where… Read more »

Sara MacVane
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Sara MacVane

@Concerned Anglican: Why do the bishops have little choice but to vote yes? Are they not men (and only so, in the C-of-E, alas)?

@JCF: but surely many believe that a recount in Florida would have given Al Gore the electoral votes he needed to win – so it isn’t popular vs electoral votes, it’s a supreme court decision which the supreme court really didn’t have the right to make (no recount in Florida, where the governor was ……)

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

Dear Richard Ashby..in its way the Lambeth Conference of 1948 said it, but by the late 1950’s we were moving on a different trajectory.

Jim
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Jim

@Dan – AND Bishop Tim Thornton of Truro – the first bishop to vote against the Covenant.

Does anyone know which bishop voted against in Chelmsford? Was it +Stephen?

Lapinbizarre
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Lapinbizarre

Sterling summation JCF. Many thanks.

JCF
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JCF

[Off-topic, @SaraMcV: it’s a simple fact that Al Gore received a higher # of the Popular Vote, nation-wide, in the US Presidential election of 2000. Whether he *also* received a higher # of Popular Vote in the State of Florida—thus receiving a majority of the Electoral College votes, and the Presidency—will probably always be debateable (as will SCOTUS’s role in the mess)] Any organization that is NOT a direct democracy (one person, one equal vote) will be subject to those who would like to slice&dice in a different fashion, depending on whose ox is being, um, gored (I’m no different… Read more »

Ray Descombes
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Ray Descombes

No, Bishop Stephen abstained and did not speak in the debate. Both the Bishop of Barking and the Bishop of Colchester spoke and, I assume voted, in favour
This leaves John Wraw our new Bishop of Bradwell as the one who voted against.

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

Perry – I was 3 in 1948. What have I missed?

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

Richard….my e mail is holmado@aol.com if you want an answer..