THINKING ANGLICANS

Women in the Episcopate – diocesan synod votes 2

Updated Saturday evening

Four more diocesan synods voted on the Women in the Episcopate legislation today: Carlisle, Ely, St Albans, Winchester.

At the time of writing I have not seen the result from Carlisle, but the other three all voted in favour by substantial majorities.

All today’s results are now available; all four dioceses voted in favour by substantial majorities. So far 13 dioceses have voted in favour and none against. At least 23 dioceses must vote in favour if the draft legislation is to return to General Synod in July.

The next diocesan synod votes will be on 22 March in Bath & Wells, Birmingham, Bradford, Lichfield, Liverpool, Oxford and Peterborough.

Detailed voting figures for all dioceses are here. I have added running totals of the voting figures to the bottom of this table.

29
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
29 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
19 Comment authors
Pete BroadbentInterested ObserverRobert ian WilliamsCynthiaian Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Fr Paul
Guest
Fr Paul

St Eds & Ips – Not a single vote against in any house!! Well done them.

Father David
Guest
Father David

St. Eds and Ips- is that one of the dioceses where female priests outnumber male?

Richard Ashby
Guest
Richard Ashby

So, I hope, this looks like a done deal and by the time Chichester comes to vote the outcome there will be irrelevant.

Interested Observer
Guest
Interested Observer

Interesting that Chelmsford and Wakefield are such outliers for the laity. The overall rate of “no” is 7.6%, but it’s 22% in Wakefield and 16% in Chelmsford, and if you consider the overall average without those two, it drops to 5.4%. What makes the laity in those two dioceses so different to the rest of the country, I wonder?

ian
Guest
ian

Well, as Wakefield will soon no longer exist, you don’t need to worry about it any more.

Father David
Guest
Father David

“What makes the laity in those two dioceses (Chelmsford and Wakefield) so different from the rest of the country”? Well maybe they just want to hold on to the Scriptural, Traditional and Historical view of episcopacy, in line with the great Churches of both East and West who retain the ancient three-fold ministry of bishop, priest and deacon in its original form.

RevPRJM
Guest
RevPRJM

Interested Observer, you also need to look at the Sheffield vote. Chelmsford and Wakefield are not the only two to date seemingly out of step with the majority. I don’t have access to the data but I do wonder whether is any correlation between length of service on Diocesan Synods and a particular way of voting on this issue.

Nathaniel Brown
Guest
Nathaniel Brown

“Well maybe they just want to hold on to the Scriptural, Traditional and Historical view of episcopacy, in line with the great Churches of both East and West who retain the ancient three-fold ministry of bishop, priest and deacon in its original form.” Oh dear! Yet another cry for the sanctity of The Way It’ Has Always Been. No matter that we have revised our views on such things as slavery and divorce; have long ignored the fact that bishops and priests are a “new” idea; that Jesus seems to have treated women with culturally unprecedented equality; that no one… Read more »

Father David
Guest
Father David

Having looked at the Sheffield figures it would seem that in the Houses of Clergy and Laity the voting was 3 to 1 in favour of the innovation. What surprised me most was not the result of the vote but how few there seem to be on the Sheffield Diocesan Synod. Including the two bishops a mere 71 people, which makes me wonder how such a modest diocese escaped the great Yorkshire amalgamation. Would it not have made good sense to include Sheffield in the new mega-diocese of Leeds?

robert ian williams
Guest
robert ian williams

Gosh its like a Russian referendum!

Benedict
Guest
Benedict

I think some of the contributors to this thread are forgetting that the motion at diocesan synods is proving successful only because the new measure is making provision for traditionalists. Lack of such provision was the reason the legislation fell at General Synod the last time.

RevPeterM
Guest
RevPeterM

The numbers of voters is so small that random fluctuation (one of the constants of life) would account for the highs and lows in any of the houses. There is no need for any further explanation!

Pete Broadbent
Guest
Pete Broadbent

Although the soviet style majorities in Diocesan Synods are encouraging and useful as points of reference (and I hope we can get a vote in favour in London in due course), you have to remember: 1. Diocesan Synods aren’t really representative of anything more than who could be bothered to stand. They have little power, and contested elections are rare. So a vote in favour in Diocesan Synod, good news though it is, is merely a snapshot of what a bunch of [probably fairly representative, but first past the post elected] people think. Because GS elections are STV elections, you… Read more »

David Lamming
Guest
David Lamming

Peter says that “At least 23 dioceses must vote in favour if the draft legislation is to return to General Synod in July.” Should that not be 22, given that Bradford, Ripon & Leeds, and Wakefield are merging to become the Diocese of Leeds (aka West Yorkshire and the Dales) at Easter 2014 and so, at the deadline date for diocesan synods to vote on the Article 8 reference and return their voting figures to the General Synod, namely 22 May 2014, there will be only 42 dioceses, not 44? An academic point, perhaps, given the overwelming support so far… Read more »

Peter Owen
Guest

Father David If I have counted correctly there were 99 members (plus an unknown number of vacancies) of Sheffield Diocesan Synod in September 2012; you can see a list of names here: http://tinyurl.com/ptc5mt2 So I would say the attendance was good if 71 of them turned up and voted for what was a foregone conclusion. But you cannot read any great significance into the size of a diocesan synod as this is a matter for local decision. The church representation rules require the total membership to be between 100 and 270, and the sizes of the houses of clergy and… Read more »

Father David
Guest
Father David

Not quite like a Russian referendum as the results, so far, are well below 93%. What Khrushchev gave away 60 years ago as a gift to Ukraine, Putin has now taken back with a landslide vote in favour of being part of Russia by the people who actually live in the Crimea. Western politicians may posture and protest as much as they like but the people have spoken decisively. Ian’s comment about the vote in the Wakefield diocese not mattering because soon it will no longer exist is a little unkind, they voted decisively not to be part of the… Read more »

Anthony Archer
Guest
Anthony Archer

Diocesan synods are treating this more seriously than I imagined, i.e. not just going through the motions through weariness. We had a good debate in St Albans with quite a number of speakers. I suggested that now was the time not to continue to vote against. What sort of statement is that at this stage? The measure has good provision. No bishop (male or female) will dare to ride roughshod over the Declaration or not abide by the Ombudsman. While no laity voted against, three clergy (who I respect) continued to argue their view on headship and voted against. One… Read more »

Peter Owen
Guest

David

Since there were 44 dioceses at the time of the reference, the synods of the three old Yorkshire dioceses are all meeting before they cease to exist, and the first meeting of the diocesan synod of the new diocese is not until the autumn, I think it is reasonable to assume that a majority of the 44 is what is required.

But as you say it almost certainly an academic point.

James Byron
Guest
James Byron

Nice summary from Pete Broadbent. A consensus has formed that women must be raised to the purple as quickly as possible. Now that provision for dissenters has been fixed, a two-thirds majority in Synod is a foregone conclusion. Any member with an ounce of pragmatism knows that a second “no” vote will be a disaster for their cause. Even those who can’t vote “yes” on principle may well abstain. Only the most stubborn die-hards will try to make a fight of it, and they’ll be brushed aside. The Church of England will likely have female bishops before the end of… Read more »

Hannah
Guest
Hannah

The one way in which the numbers in diocesan synods is not “academic” is this: all members of General Synod are also members of their diocesan synods, and may vote in them. That does not, of course, mean that everyone is either present or voting when a diocesan synod meets, but if – when we have all the results – the total number of lay votes against is very small and then we still do not get 2/3 majority in HoL in General Synod, there will be some interesting questions to be answered. On the whole, however, I find myself… Read more »

ian
Guest
ian

Ian’s comment about the vote in the Wakefield diocese not mattering because soon it will no longer exist is a little unkind,

Sorry, Father David, I was trying my hand at (is it?) irony. I obviously got it wrong. I was born and brought up in Wakefield in the days when there were great octopus like posters urging us Wakefieldians to fight off being taken over by the then West Riding. What was successful then, obviously didn’t work with the great Leeds takeover in the church.

William Raines
Guest
William Raines

Clearly, many of those opposed to women bishops have withdrawn from the struggle in order to spend more time with their other prejudices.

ian
Guest
ian

Clearly, many of those opposed to women bishops have withdrawn from the struggle in order to spend more time with their other prejudices.

And by that you mean?

William Raines
Guest
William Raines
ian
Guest
ian

Yes, well, I guess you have a point.

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

Could someone please summarize what the provision ended up being? Somehow I missed the final version. There was a lot of talk about always having one bishop who believed in male headship and another odd one involving the false theology of “taint” if a woman bishop participated in ordinations and consecrations (even if there were several guys participating). I never got a grip on what was finally written up.

Robert ian Williams
Guest
Robert ian Williams

The Tatars( native population) are not as enthusiastic as you, David.This is the Sudetenland all over again.

Interested Observer
Guest
Interested Observer

“There was a lot of talk about always having one bishop who believed in male headship” It’s fascinating to speculate about how they think that would work. Imagine something similar had happened in the US South in the 1960s. Imagine provision had been put in place so that, in perpetuity, those that wanted to have a white supremacist bishop who abjured miscegenation and kept black ministers out of churches would be entitled to alternative oversight. In such a situation, I don’t doubt that even today there would be a small pool of irreconcilables who would fill the pews of a… Read more »

Pete Broadbent
Guest
Pete Broadbent

This is *Thinking* Anglicans. There is no comparison to be made between “headship” evangelicals (even though I think they are entirely misguided) and a fruitcake fascist renegade RC bishop. Please do better.