"Christians in Africa focus more on the Old Testament with its plagues, visions and healings watched over by a stern and demanding God.

“That corresponds more to the world they live in,” Reuters/Canada

I don't know about that. President Bush is capable of bringing his "stern" NEW God to Africa with his NEW "vision" for Nigerian democracy/war against terrorists which will match up nicely with the greedy/corrupt Nigerian everyday way right under the nose of their "stern" God.

Bishop Akinola will have a hard time marketing, selling and exporting his kind of broad seat-of-the-pantalones old "abomination" ignorance about LGBT Christians/Muslim to the Western World.

Akinola is currently busy in Nigeria endorsing anti-Human Rights legislation that would immediately throw in JAIL LGBT people, their loved ones, their families and friends for simply wishing to "be" or "assembling" in public.

http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/2005/09/archbishop-akinola-gays-produce.html

Peter Akinolas kind of religious inspired hatemongering fiction only has a LIMITED audience in the Western World...that same audience is usually quite active burning crosses on the front lawns of other Christian people whom they wish another "plague" will strike dead.

I wish that headline was 'Ardour v. order = ordure'

I should have worked for The Sun.

As a simple measure of how unbelievably ignorant are Philip Jenkins' reported comments in the "Split Goes Deeper" piece above, take the little line about exorcizing demons. If I didn't read the Bible myself, I'd think that such activities were entirely confined to that Old Testament with its nasty, mean God. Of course, as those who read the Bible know, all exorcizing is found in the Gospels, not in the OT.

Oh, and who said "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"? Someone from the Old Testament, you say? Wrong again. That would be our dear, inclusive Jesus.

Could a smart guy like Jenkins really have said that the Africans believe in exorcisms, hell and healings because they read the Old Testament?? It's because they read the New Testament! Maybe the reporter got it wrong. After all, the mistake is depressingly common.

"Robert Tong ["from Sydney diocese"] described the Episcopal Church in the United States as the “sick man of the Anglican Communion”. He found parallels in the situation with Harold Macmillan’s declaration in his “wind of change” speech in South Africa in 1960: “It is our earnest desire to give South Africa our support and encouragement, though frankly there are some aspects in your polity which make it impossible for us to do this without being false to our deep conviction [on apartheid].”"

What an execrable comparison (Apartheid South Africa, to Inclusive TEC). What abominable poppycock. >:-/

Lord have mercy!

No, Doug, its because their outlook and world view remains premodern, so they still believe in that which is clearly delusionary

Why all this pussyfooting about? The Nigerian Church is no better than a cult.

Doug,

Your comments are so on the mark. Thank you for pointing out that the African Anglicans are not prehistoric relics with simplistic readings of the Old Testament fueling them. Indeed, loving and thoughtful study of Jesus' words in the NT are what anchor many of the 'orthodox' in Africa and other locales.

Leonardo, is it really necessary to say that those who support +Akinola are among the 'cross burning' crowd? That's not befitting a 'thinking anglican'. If we are going to find a way forward together, name calling is hardly a way to make that happen.

There are many of us who are socially pretty liberal yet our theology is traditional. We may not agree with TEC innovations, but we do remain open to listening to our GLBT friends and praying for guidance and wisdom. That may not be the pace you want, but it is genuine and hardly befitting being called a cross burner.

I was disappointed by Jenkins analysis that the lines are OT/NT. My experience is that there are many conservatives who perceive the NT as replacing and surpassing the OT and are not interested in biblical hermeneutic consistency with the OT; except where it acts as rubber stamp for their paradigms. That type of conservative seems to be unaware of the biblical God that calls for compassion and mercy, who hates the oppressor, and promises redemption for more than pure human males.

Jenkins' assessment seems to be unaware of liberal theologians who look for hermeneutic consistency with God's character from the OT; and that those theologians do not see Jesus as a radical break from God's previous interventions but more an underlining re-emphasis of God's inclusive compassionate nature.

Yes, reading the New Testament can produce terrible attitudes too. The Church is the one who reads the Bible, and the Church must be sensitive to the gentle leading of the Paraclete Who has yet many things to teach us.

Musing on the Tanzanian event, I surmise that in choosing to act as chairman Rowan Williams is handing over to Bp Sentamu the role of representing the Church of England -- and thus deflecting the scapegoating of which he himself has been the object. The Global South has been heavily ironic about Rowan Williams, in a childishly ad hominem way -- as in the ill-starred letter from Akinola et al. -- so perhaps now Rowan will delegate to Sentamu the task of dealing with them. That will leave them with a harder target to ridicule and free him for a mission to the Church of England, where, apart from some dire recalcitrant enclaves, his presence is always cherished. There must be countless parishes throughout the land who would love to see and hear more of him (and not on Youtube!).

I surmise that as chairman RW will devote himself to letting the process play itself out according to the prescriptions of church law, leaving to Abp Sentamu the task of making any substantive points the C of E wants to make.

One think he can do as chairman is put a curb on any illicit procedures or breaches of courtesy that may be contemplated against Bp Jefferts Schori, who seems very much to be in the posture of entering the lions' den. Allegations that she has apostasized from the Lordship of Christ and the Authority of Scripture should be promptly checked; they arise from a lack of theological and hermeneutical culture, and also from a scandalous lack of pastoral sensitivity.

Has Robert Tong become demented? People of sane mind wouldn't accuse inclusive TEC of being racist, i.e., practising Apartheid. Well, the Bible-fundies have become a sorry lot--cherry-pickers, who judge their brothers and sisters in Christ just for the sake of judging them, disregarding our Lord's advice not to judge unless we want to be judged ourselves.

It's a political campaign, remember. And it is inspired from German 1920ies theories of Propaganda. Anything will do, if "useful".

"Has Robert Tong become demented? "

Think of it as a new version of the 'nazi' game: whoever is first reduced to calling an opponent a nazi has probably run out of coherent strategies. 'Racist' fulfils much the same function (and other versions of the game have included 'bourgeois' 'patriarchal' 'feminist') and without supporting evidence is just as much the equivalent of a four-year-old shouting, 'And you smell of wee' in an attempt to win an argument.

"Leonardo, is it really necessary to say that those who support +Akinola are among the 'cross burning' crowd? That's not befitting a 'thinking anglican'. If we are going to find a way forward together, name calling is hardly a way to make that happen." Harvard Man

Reading is useful! Did you click on the link that I provided that is proof that your pal +Akinola instigates with his hate speech? Before giving me a lecture on religious "tolerance" I suggest you be aware of what Akinola spouts off about! Preaching to me against "innovations" when "abominations" is the word that conservative use has ONLY been helpful to generate crimes of hate again LGBT people for centuries...Akinola is currently legislating to continue the misery of others Anglicans/Christians/Muslims with anti-Human Rights legislation against LGBT people in Nigeria...you *did* know about that part? Meanwhile in America it is mostly in Texas and select parts of the former Confederate South like South Carolina/spots of Florida (Quincy? Springfield? and the Hells Angels hang-out of San Joaquin) that are supporters of Akinolan religious thought regarding the "hooligan" offspring of LGBT people...please click on the link if you want to read both fantasy and hate at the Anglican Communion generated by Peter Akinola...then, I'll happily join YOU in prayer for a more loving and justice driven way back to the table for our Communion together (the same table that Orombi and Akinola refuse to "attend" with OUR Presiding Bishop and many others including me).

Silliness, is there no end to the "justified" religious hatemongering?

Leonardo,

Ahh...so it is those uneducated rednecks in Texas and the South who are at fault! And in cahoots with an ignorant black man! Funny, who is the racist now?

You would crack me up if I didn't get the impression you believed in this mean spirited position.

Have you visited any of these congregations, Leonardo? I have, and have seen many loving, bright, (gasp, even east coast Ivy League educated professionals!) trying to sort this all through, gay, straight, sinners all. It may not be what you believe, but it does not justify slingling insults at such congregations.

'Ivy league...and educated' ?? Huh? No mention was made by Leonardo of black man...and Oxford educated man is confused by your cheap accusations of racism. Come on Mr. America...
Mr. Akinola is 'wrong' man whatever his colour!

Please confine your comments in this thread to the subject of the original article...

"ignorant black man"
Funny, Harvard Man, but I have never seen +Akinola referred to in this way, nor even seen it implied. Indeed, his intellect and scholarship have never been in doubt. I, for one, have always assumed he has an extensive academic background, and I'm envious of his willingness to argue theologically. Would that "Liberal" bishops had such conviction that they too could make the theological arguments that need to, and can, be made. I'm intrigued as to why you see racism in this. I suspect it's because you think the evil "Liberals" are only motivated by a desire to appear politically correct and will run shrieking from any accusation of racism. This points out the intellectual danger in buying into the "Conservative" mythology that would make them the poor persecuted remnant being besieged by the faithless "Liberals" who are only interested in the approval of the world. Believe it at your own peril. Disagreement with +Akinola had nothing to do with race and everything to do with Gospel based opposition to oppression, regardless of the perceived guilt of those being persecuted. Or did you think Jesus tells us to visit in prison only those who are there unjustly? He certainly didn't tell us to imprison them.