It's ironic. Stand Firm put it up and then quickly took it down again, but not before others got hold of it. It wasn't meant to be released to the media until after approval by the Conference tomorrow! Now they, and T19 have, had no alternative but put it back up. George Conger has written a pretty cross post to SF!

There's a lot of negativity on SF too. Seems a shame to bitch so publically, but hey what do I know. Honest at least.

If only Gafcon it self had manage more honest reality.

I regret that my totally honest view of them would be unprintable.

I just don't know who they think they are.

A subjective test for orthodoxy...for is not Priestly female ordination unorthodox practice for Sydney..so he could re-evangelise Uganda, kenya and Rwanda!

However it is not criticised at all in the Declarartion.

No mention of our Lords teaching on divorce as these self styled "orthodox" do not agree as to what it means!

Lip service to the 39 articles, as Anglo-Catholcs carry out practices condemned by them...but will happily sign!

Signed on a Roman feast day....St Peter and Paul, the BCP 1662 only has the feast of Peter, Apostle!

BCP 1662 definitive and authoritative! No prayers for the dead, benedictus and agnus dei out, Gloria at th end of the service!

REVERSING THE OXFORD MOVEMENT!

Contrast this shabby declaration with the decison of the jerusalem Council, where ST Peter spoke and all held silence.

It rewrites Anglicanism:

http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2008/06/gafcon-not-quite-final-statement.html

The primates Council will decide on what is orthodox, and what is not, will give oversight where it is not (to those who are) and the logical extension is new provinces as Robert Duncan and company will set up a new one in North America recognised by the Primates Council. It is a takeover from Canterbury and every geographical Anglican Church ought to shut the door to this takeover attempt to give oversight according to narrow definitions of orthodoxy.

The backbiting on the earlier stages of the StandFirm thread indicate that George Conger and Gregg Griffith had advance copies of the statement. Conger's posts, in particular the statement to Gregg Griffith "Shame on you for ruining the final day of the conference", accusing Griffith - rightly, it seems - of being the source of the leak [apparently unintentionally], pretty well put paid to what remaining claim Conger might have to be an objective commentator on the schismatic process.

When you say "written a pretty cross post"
that is an understatement.
At SF they spend three quarters of the comments from 10-78 bickering amongst themselves. Some samples:
“Shame on you for ruining the final day of the conference.” (30)
“I could give a flying #@$@ about all this garbage” (78)

Blessings

Bosco+
http://www.liturgy.co.nz

Not a schism, then, but a church within a church, a movement which ceases to respect the primacy or authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury, a movement which includes diocesan and area bishops of the Church of England.

The movement isn't going off to become a separate church but will work to change Anglicanism from within. The warnings of my American friends that we in England will be confronted with the same pattern of parishes and dioceses seeking some kind of independence from the national church moved a step closer yesterday. Give the legal constraints of establishment, it's difficult to see how it could happen here in the same way.

It is also clear that bishops like Michael Nazir Ali and Wallace Benn no longer feel constrained by oaths of obedience. I think that in England and elsewhere in the Communion, developments will happen which will create a structure of semi-independent parishes and bishops, if not dioceses, ordaining and appointing independently, ignoring General Synod.

How do orthodox, faithful, mainstream, radical Anglicans respond to this? We are also a movement. A movement responding to the murmuring of the Holy Spirit and to the injunction of our Lord to love one another, irrespective of our status, gender or sexuality. For us, that means a radical change in church teaching and practice in relation to the ordination of women, the call of women to the episcopate and the blessing of gay relationships.

I think we have to become courageous proselytes for our vision of the Kingdom of God. I have no idea what we need to do, but I am sure that faced with the presence of a Gafcon movement in Anglicanism, we do need to respond actively and practically. Inclusive Church, Changing Attitude, LGCM, WATCH, MCU, Aff Cath, PCN, Fulcrum and others organisations, which have already formed closer relationships, will have a role to play in our mission and witness to God’s infinitely generous, tender love.

I think that this is putting off the inevitable. As GAFCON becomes more of a separate organisation, then it will develop its own momentum and the wider Anglican structures will become less and less relevant to them - as their own structures develop more and more a life of their own. It will also become more the case that the internal contradictions will take up more time and consideration.

Of course, liberals and broadchurch people wn;t be going away, particularly in the CofE, and I think experience tells us that those who do partially separate end up becoming quite marginal to everyday Anglican activity - FiF in the CofE have proved that. They tend to end up relating to each other than the wider group.

The logic of this move will be to harden and widen the differences...and the eventual outcome will be either a very loose knot federation indeed, where there will be essentially rival streams of Anglicanism based on theology not geography, or a final split.

Either way - its certainly Anglican Communion RIP.

Scenario ala GAFCONIAN ANGLICANISM

Archbishop Peter Jensen..Womens priestly ordination is unbiblical, and unorthodox and we are not having it here in Sydney. Its a corruption of western liberal culture.

OH hello Orthodox brother Archbishop Orombi, come and sit down, and Christine ( mrs Jensen)will get us a nice cup of tea.

Archbishop Orombi ..we are firm belivers in the ordination of women as a Biblical and Orthodox truth.

Some persons are more orthodox than others!

An intereting equation.

0=WO=H

Guess Archbishop jensen should have persisted in his law studies.

I still think the whole thing will end in civil war. The Anglo Catholics (like +Iker and xSchofield) are left in the lurch here. Women's ordination remains unresolved, and the exact nature of Biblical authority will probably emerge as a source of contention. There are literalists, and not-so-literal readers of the Bible in their ranks.

They will probably start using those new ecclesiastical night sticks on each other.

When the dust settles we will see that Gafcon's winners are the Australian and English conservative evangelicals, who will now, in their respective countries, proceed with their own agenda. All Souls, Langham Place - now there's a strange dedication for an evo cathedral - anyone? All else, North American province - unworkable, because of clashing "churchmanships" - included, is incidental.

For all the talk of "post-colonialism", the Central African provinces have been played like a violin by their former colonial masters. In this game an African primate is a pawn, not a bishop.

Contrast this shabby declaration with the decison of the jerusalem Council, where ST Peter spoke and all held silence.

Ah yes, vivat Papa! ;)

Would you be happier, Robert, if bishops at Lambeth realized that Henry VIII made a huge mistake and declared that they would submit to Rome at last? And perhaps all the Lutherans as well while we're at it? Just wondering.

You may criticize GAFCON, but I suppose you have a different outcome in mind. I come from a largely Roman Catholic country, and I will wager that many of our RC bishops have the same thinking you have.

I do think that there are issues that have to be resolved in the future, but ultimately--and much to the chagrin of the more evangelical elements--I suspect it will be resolved in a more catholic direction. After all, once you connect biblical literalism and the lunatic fringe, it's hard to distance one from the other without uttering a lot of complex nuance.

Sorry to pop your conspiracy theory bubble, Lappinbizarre but all accredited media received a copy of the statement last night before the time of scheduled release.

"I just don't know who they think they are."

GAFCON members are the Faithful Orthodox Remnant, persecuted by the world. This persecution is carried out by liberals who have no faith, no morals, and who are savagely trying to destroy the Church and Her Gospel, which they do not believe. America is the homeland of said liberals, and they have there been largely successful in driving the True Church back into the catacombs with their evil persecution of said Faithful Remnant. This is interesting since, as I noted elsewhere, America has more selfconfessed Christians than most other countries. Fundamentalist Christians have huge influence on American politics, law, and foreign policy. They have become congregants, I resist the word 'infiltrated', some of the most influential American parishes in GAFCON/CANA/the Network. Given their prominent place in American society, they must logically be members of these "cults" GAFCON claims are replacing "orthodox" Christianity. All they need now is an American law requiring them, on pain of death, to burn a pinch of incense on the Imperial Altar. The their persecution complex will be complete. Look at how prominent the language of attack and conflict with some evil enemy is in their statements.

Which does nothing to blunt my point that the nature of your reaction to Gregg Griffith's leaking the document puts paid to any claim you might have to be an objective commentator on the ongoing schismatic process, Mr. Conger

Opening paragraph "The LORD builds up Jerusalem; he gathers the outcasts of Israel. (Psalm 147:1-2)"

Amen and right back at them.

In come the outcastes to Zion to be called God's people (Isaiah 51:16), including eunuchs (Isaiah 56:3). Hosea 2:1 "Say of your brothers, 'My people," and of your sisters, 'My loved one.'" and 2:23 The Lord "will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say 'You are my God.'"

Also the forsaken Isaiah 49:13-17 "Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; burst into song, O mountains! For the LORD comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones. But Zion said, “The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me.” “Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me. Your sons hasten back, and those who laid you waste depart from you." See also Ezekiel 34:23-31 God will place over them one shepherd and will make a covenant of peace with them "so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety... they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations... you are my sheep".

In their attempts to prove their purity and loyalty to the texts, they have demonstrated a fundamental refutal of the precept of peace and inclusion that is repeatedly underscored as the intentions of texts. Thus they have broken covenant and their staffs of favour and union are broken.

Let them create their communion. By their fruits we shall know them, and praise be to God that the watchtowers were able to give warning to reduce the desolation that their teachings would bring.

>>>8. We acknowledge God’s creation of humankind as male and female and the unchangeable standard of Christian marriage between one man and one woman as the proper place for sexual intimacy and the basis of the family. We repent of our failures to maintain this standard and call for a renewed commitment to lifelong fidelity in marriage and abstinence for those who are not married.

Does this mean that Bishop Wantland, Canon Roseberry, and other leaders of the "orthodox" will now have to return to their rightful spouses?

Yes Ren, I would like to see all Chritian people safely on the Rock of Peter. However I do think it is a betrayal of truth , when Bishops who sig this declaration will return home to openly defie the strictures of the 39 articles on eucharistic reservation and worship!

After all is not that the very compalint of Gafcon about what they claim is the TEC revisonists attitude to truth.

"... all accredited media..."

By whom?