It just has to play out, pretty much as IRD and others laid out together in the Chapman Memo - except of course for the two constant dire predictions that (1) the rest of us will not understand what is really happening until after the new conservative believers have locked everything up in their own special godly favor, plus (2) the rest of us are so inconsequential that we are doomed to fade away so far as following Jesus, common prayer, witness, and service goes.

Like many other USA-type extreme conservative initiatives, this one may reveal itself by playing its own special hand of cards to the hilt. Having left their targets behind and outside - no queer folks here, no uppity women here (oops, well a few hanging around ordained by Duncan, and impairing Iker's communion with other conserves it appears), and certainly above all and most loudly, no progressive or questioning folks. Whew. Isn't that a relief? What freedom to be loosed from believers who read science seriously, who understand (say) constitutional democracy and social change, asking questions?

Now what?

We all know full well pretty much all the hot buttons that these believers are so strongly against - including that infamous Anglican big tent of which KJS speaks in her LA Times quotes. What else is going to go on with the new province, besides them keeping themselves clean from questioning-progressive-women-gay cooties while they try to stay together?

If it does not quite pan out as planned, the Anglican big tent hopefully will still be there to shelter those whose journey takes them further down spiritual roads, back towards big tent believers.

Someday I hope Minns ends up riding in a big circus bus full of COLAGE kids. It is only a matter of time, if the demographics and generational shifts continue. Meanwhile, expect a whole lot of screeching sounds as the new province tries to stomp on the brakes of change.

Linked via Naughton is a streaming video of Q&A with KJS at a parish talk in Florida. Interesting, I really like this fine lady, thank goodness, thank God.

See: http://www.episcopalswfl.org/news/article162319c1657813.htm

I wonder if the insistance that "churches/dioceses can't leave TEC, only individuals" has caused the progressive side difficulty. While this description is true technically perhaps as a matter of canon law, a journalist confronted by groups of ex-TEC people meeting together has to find words to describe the process.
So they use phrases like "dioceses/churches that have left TEC" that upset progressives.
By insisting on rhetoric that makes it hard to describe what is going on, those who speak for TEC have surrendered the general media to the conservatives. It is a case of politically correctness getting in the way of communication.
In this way, many progressives have greatly assisted the formation of the new province. I am not cheeky enough to say thankyou.....

John Sandeman / Obadiah Slope

It is absolutely hilarious - and I can only imagine how funny it'll be in 200 years - that the Great Episcopal/Anglican Schism occurred because of homosexuality.

The so-called "orthodox" can deny it all they like - and point to the "heresy" of the Episcopal Church - but the fact remains that it wasn't until gay folks came along that the so-called "orthodox" realized they had to get OUTTA HERE, pronto.

Heh.

2+2=4, and "they're no longer Episcopalians" {*}: God bless our clear-speaking Presiding Bishop! :-D

{*} They just need to change their institutional residences, to reflect that fact.

Yes they use Mathematical calculation very like the excellent two minute sketch on Youtube, called bailout explained... Its worth watching...its the black and white picture that comes up.

If there were 100,000 ..12,000 are Reformed Episcopalians.. never Anglican.

For instance Anglican Mainstream gives the number of communicant Anglicans in Wales as the figure foir Wales.. when there are an estimated miillion baptized. They do the same with New Zealand....Yet 17 million is given for Nigeria, and not even 10 million of these go on a regular basis.

As George Bernard Shaw said, " There are lies, damned lies and statistics. "

I think John Sandeman's observations about language are correct - that an insistence on technicalities has handed an advantage to those seeking to play up the schism.

However, the fact that 815 has apparently decimated its communications function has aggravated this significantly.

Malcolm+ -- You may well be right, but the congregational presuppositions of Americans whose ancestors came to the New World to escape the tyranny of the Church of England (to establish their own religious tyrannies, of course) must certainly play a part. The Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Churches are indisputably hierarchical, yet Americans don't understand why a congregation can't chose to go its own way (admittedly, the Orthodox DO change jurisdictions, so there's that).

Obadiah Slope -- you know your disclaimer sounds remarkably like, "You know I'd be the last to say anything, but ..."

Doubtless so, Prior. Yet the courts generally seem to have favoured the hierarchical churches over the schismatical congregations.

In any event, it is wildly irresponsible to reduce investment in the communications function during a time of crisis or controversy.

Malcolm+

The courts don't want to get involved in internal religious matters ( there are constitutional issues, after all) & have more sense than the "conventional wisdom" (plebicites are usually NOT a good idea -- getting close to mob rule) -- as to the latter -- I couldn't agree more! Effective communication at a time of crisis would seem to be a jolly good idea!

About numbers -- it isn't really about numbers, but it is supposedly true that for any group above a certain size, there are always going to be around 5% who are going to be unhappy & complaining -- even if they leave, the statistics will right themselves again (just as the % of people incarcerated has no effect on the crime rate - counter-intuitive, but the facts are there).

"Because some TEC bishops are hostile to members or congregations joining or remaining a part of the AAC because of our clear stand against the increasing heterodoxy of the Episcopal Church, a new type of membership is available, called "In Pectore," which means in the heart."

This statement by 'Bishop Anderson' of ACNA, seems to emanate from the world of Alice in Wonderland - if he thinks that TEC can or ought to co-exist with the newly inaugurated 'Province of Cana in north America. As the Presiding Bishop of TEC, the Rt. Revd, Katherine Jefforts-Schori has already intimated, such a duplicious body would be inconsistent with the established polity of the Episcopal Church of the USA, at least, not to mention the Anglican Church of Canada.

The Schism that has already taken place, with the advent of the new provincial body, would need more than just a 'good-will' provenance to repair the damage that has been done. Neither TEC nor the Canadian Anglican Church can be held responsible for the current disunity, so that any plea for partner status with the those Churches, from the departing schismatics, must be suspect, to say the least.

The phrase 'In Pectore' presumes that there is a heart to be catered to - in the separated body. Whereas the heart, though torn, must remain in the original corpus. There is no prospect of a 'transplant' in the immediate future.

"some TEC bishops are hostile to members or congregations joining or remaining a part of the AAC because of our clear stand against the increasing heterodoxy of the Episcopal Church"

You know, I wish these people would either produce evidence of this or stop misleading people. I think I'll start stories about Canadians being persecuted by people from Timbuktu. Who knows, maybe it'll finally solve the national unity issue.