Saturday, 6 December 2008

Sunday Tribune interviews Archbishop Akinola

There is a lengthy interview with Archbishop Peter Akinola in the Sunday Tribune, a Nigerian newspaper.

Read it all here.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Saturday, 6 December 2008 at 11:29pm GMT | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Anglican Communion
Comments

"glued to this whole perversion"? Where are Minns & Sugden when he needs them?

Posted by: Lapinbizarre on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 1:33am GMT

"... how pro-homosexual Europeans are buying over weak churches in Africa to keep quiet, GAFCON and how God rescued one of his bishops from a lion."

Proportion in all things ;=)

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 9:01am GMT

A few comments:

The Archbishop said: “In America and England, they are using money to buy silence. They are using money to buy compromise. They have always done it and they are still doing it and they will not stop doing it.”

Ho, ho…

“The church just decided that I should serve my tenure fully. There is no extension of anything and there is no second term anywhere, they just asked me to serve my 10 years tenure and complete it.”

Haven’t we heard this several times over from other Third world political figures?

“Again, we have never said that homosexuals are to be found only in England or America.”

Haven’t they?

“While the church was there in the cities, we couldn’t say much about the church in the rural areas. We have so many communities that either have no church at all or had a church that is very very weak and we decided that, that will be a top priority – reaching out to the rural areas.” “… the church is taking the gospel to nomadic people who are simply wandering all about. They (nomadic people) even have a bishop, have an evangelist.”

Sounds very much like it was in Europe a thousand years ago…

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 9:38am GMT

Continuation:

“The task before us now is, how do we deepen the faith, how do we get these new converts and even the old ones to take their faith more seriously, how do we relate faith to daily life? That, for us now, is the current issue. We call that Discipleship. We are going to focus more, now, on teaching and preaching in such a way that people are led to deeper things of God so that their faith can sustain them in time of difficulties. That they can see that God is sufficient in all things at all times, and they will not be tempted to go back to their old ways. Like I said, all these come under discipleship and that is the focus in our work in the next two years.”

As I hinted above, make that 200 or 500 ;=)

Generally I find the numbers alleged in this interview rather blurred, they don’t make up. There seems to be a constant mind-struggle between white-washing and menace…

“In England, only 1 million go to church, (Anglican church) but on paper, there are 25 million Anglicans. You now have a so-called modern concern. Oh! don’t bother your neighbour, don’t offend your neighbour, be politically correct, don’t do things that will be offensive to your neighbour. All of a sudden, if you speak about Christ that is seen to be offensive, if you have Christmas carol being song, all of a sudden it is offensive. When we talk of Christmas, it is offensive because Christ is there, in the name of civil liberty and political correctness, they removed Christ, they are campaigning for the removal of the Cross from public domain.”

As is obvious from this, and the following paragraphs, American political Culture War Propaganda is inundating foreign lands…

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 9:39am GMT

What a sycophantic interview. Don't they have proper journalists in Nigeria?

Posted by: Giles Fraser on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 12:43pm GMT

"glued to this whole perversion"

His grace is almost as offensive as ever, except has he changed from denying the existence of homosexuals in Africa? He is part-way to recognising them as human beings.

Any chance he will sit down and listen to them, or share communion?

Posted by: dodgey_vicar on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 2:00pm GMT

Goran (sorry I can't do the umlaut), you nailed it.

Archbishop Akinola is parroting the American extremist right-wing propaganda typical of this season. We in the US are inundated with it at this time of the year.

See, for example, the screed at the "Conservative-Insurgent" blog ("In God We Trust," "I stand with Israel"): http://www.conservative-insurgent.blog-city.com/christmas.htm

Or see: John Gibson's "The War on Christmas" at http://www.conservativebookclub.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824 -- "Secularists are bent on imposing upon us a neutered, secular winter holiday that throws out every trace of Christianity from the public observance of Christmas. It's all necessary, they tell us, to avoid offending non-Christians and, above all, to keep from violating the all-important separation of church and state. Meanwhile, Christians in America are increasingly marginalized and shunted aside."

I wonder that Archbishop Akinola did not go on to attack the ACLU or stand up for the Second Amendment!

Posted by: Charlotte on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 2:46pm GMT

Where's the question on communal violence?

Posted by: Pluralist on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 3:27pm GMT

Yes, Christians in America are so marginalized and shunted aside that they are the only religious group to have their holiday declared a national one, by law.

I don't recall Passover or Ramadan or Halloween being so legally honored.

Posted by: Pat O'Neill on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 4:46pm GMT

Dear Charlotte,

To us it is not an Umlaut!

But do cut and paste - I often do ;=)

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 6:56pm GMT

Read that to the average English person and they would think the author to be a deluded religious extremist

Posted by: Merseymike on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 8:12pm GMT

"Yes, Christians in America are so marginalized and shunted aside that they are the only religious group to have their holiday declared a national one, by law."

And the Post Office prints religious and non-religious stamps for Christmas cards

I don't recall Passover or Ramadan or Halloween being so legally honored.

Ah! But Halloween has become a major adult drinking holiday, as has St. Patrick's Day.


Posted by: Cynthia Gilliatt on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 9:27pm GMT

Goran, I take exception with your comment.

>>>Haven’t we heard this several times over from other Third world political figures? <<<

What size of delusion do you wear, may I ask? Or what world do you actually live in -since you don't live in 'the third world'- where politicians are not as full of *** as Akinola obviously is? (in his case, add superstition to the mix).

Posted by: Leonel on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 10:13pm GMT

Goran, I take exception with another comment you've made:

>>> Sounds very much like it was in Europe a thousand years ago… <<<<<

Or Europe in the present time, you could say. True, they're not called 'nomads' there, but immigrants.

Look at your eye in a mirror, Goran. It's a plank.

Posted by: Leonel on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 10:17pm GMT

"Sycophantic" indeed, Giles. Also poorly edited. Loved the line about what "Dr Williams Rowan" had to say at "Lambert 2008" (sic and double sic). Of course, one might ask how Akinola knows what was said at Lambert 2008, given that he didn't go and recalled the one bishop from Nigeria who might have told him.

Also interesting to read that the Church of Nigeria is sovereign. I happen to agree with that, if he means the same thing as autonomous, but it is curious that Akinola feels the need to defend the autonomy of his own Church whilst vigourously attacking the autonomy of other Provinces. This gander will decide on sauce for the other geese, it seems.

Finally, it all comes down to having to defend the faith against greeting cards that say "Season's Greetings" on them, a phrase that has been around since Victorian times incidentally. Probably part of a gay plot.

Here's a notion: why not have a campaign to send Akinola "Season's Greetings" cards? Millions of them! (One is tempted to include a request for bank information so he can receive the $150,000,000 left him by his long-lost gay uncle in America, but let's resist that one.) Just "Season's Greetings" and, perhaps to borrow from Fiddler on the Roof, "may God bless and keep Archbishop Akinola - far away from us."

Posted by: Nom de Plume on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 10:48pm GMT

"Or Europe in the present time, you could say. True, they're not called 'nomads' there, but immigrants."

Not all of them. The Roma were born there, although they don't seem to be treated much better for that. There are places in Europe where Roma have been denied citizenship (or, as in the Czech Republic, stripped of it).

Posted by: BillyD on Sunday, 7 December 2008 at 11:33pm GMT

Cynthia and Pat,
For what it's worth, there HAS been an Eid stamp issued - I just recently came across my notes from the year of issuance. It was originally issued just before the 9/11/01 attacks, and as a result, there was massive pressure from certain quarters to boycott it, if not to force the Post Office to withdraw it completely. Our womens' interfaith group, formed in response to the attacks, tried to provide some education to counterbalance this pressure.

I've not heard of a US-issued Passover stamp, but the Eid stamp has been reissued several times at current postage rates.

Posted by: RobinD on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 2:45am GMT

Depress the "Alt" key, Charlotte, and while doing so type "148" on the number pad to the right-hand side of your keyboard. This will place an "ö" in your text when you raise your finger from the Alt key after typing the number. Other ASCII code accented letters are to be found in that same numeric area - "130" gives "é", for example.

Posted by: Lapinbizarre on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 3:07am GMT

Ho Ho Ho, Nom.

Dover Books has a lovely selection of Victorian design non-religious e-cards at http://dovercards.com/Holidays/Holidays.html

Very suitable for sending to Archbishop Akinola.

There's even one where Santa is wishing everyone a "Merry Xmas." The "X" in "Xmas" drives right-wingers nuts; they think it's the Mark of the Beast, or something.

Posted by: Charlotte on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 4:45am GMT

Lionel wrote: “Göran, I take exception with your comment.
>>>Haven’t we heard this several times over from other Third world political figures? >> Sounds very much like it was in Europe a thousand years ago… <<<<<
Or Europe in the present time, you could say. True, they're not called 'nomads' there, but im-migrants. Look at your eye in a mirror, Göran. It's a plank.“

But, surely, immigrants often have o t h e r religions (or none), putting them wholly outside any American “Culture wars” or discussion of the separation of State and Church (e.g. “Christmas”)?

On the very contrary Lionel, I see the similarities between Akinola’s pre Modern Nigeria (as most African States; a wholly artificial creation of Colonialism) and the situation in Northern and Eastern Europe a thousand years ago in pre Modernity. And some of us were indeed no-mads. Some still are – have your heard about Swedish summer “thorps” lived in for 3 months every summer? And then there are the Roma of the still pre Modern former Soviet Zone…

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 6:50am GMT

Charlotte wrote: "There's even one where Santa is wishing everyone a "Merry Xmas". The "X" in "Xmas" drives right-wingers nuts; they think it's the Mark of the Beast, or something."

Funny you say this, for here the Calvinist Free church people (much into "financing" and computors) use the "X" quite freequently as a mark of their appurtenance...

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 8:41am GMT

Lionel wrote: “Göran, I take exception with your comment.
>>>Haven’t we heard this several times over from other Third world political figures? <<<
What size of delusion do you wear, may I ask? Or what world do you actually live in – since you don't live in 'the third world' – where politicians are not as full of *** as Akinola obvi-ously is? (in his case, add superstition to the mix).”

Well, well… if you stress Politicians rather than Third world, should be getting it right.

Didn’t we just have one in Pakistan? who tried to hold on to whatever…outliving himself. Don’t we have one in Thailand? Zimbabwe?

And didn’t several Politicians in the former Soviet Zone – which the 1970ies called the Second World – try the same? Just as Franklin D. Roosevelt, by the way ;=)

Love for "Power" is not un-known you know.

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 8:45am GMT

"There's even one where Santa is wishing everyone a "Merry Xmas." The "X" in "Xmas" drives right-wingers nuts; they think it's the Mark of the Beast, or something."

I love that reaction - they clearly don't know their Greek!

(I dont like the use of 'Xmas' myself - not least because it seems to be said 'Ex-muss' - but another argument against the loonies is to say that it brings the Cross (X) into Christmas...)

Posted by: Richard on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 9:12am GMT

I adore your links, Charlotte!

Funny that American politicoes has such a hang up on Socialism and Communism n o w, about a system they never lived under... almost 20 years after the Fall of the Wall!

But I suppose it's just Propaganda.

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 9:13am GMT

Pluralist asked: “Where's the question on communal violence?”

Where indeed… Violence is the key to understanding the pre Modern. I distinctly remember Spain 33 years ago. The corrida was still a big thing, though it had been opposed by the Church in most other places around the Mediterranean in its early centuries, as 2nd Com-mandment; CULT, and was extinguished elsewhere.

Nowadays, with the introduction of Democracy and Civil Rights, it’s “el foot”; football. Euro-pean, of course.

All this is about the General Level of Violence in Society.

10 years ago, when I went back to Madrid for the first time, the Changes promised had ar-rived. Madrid was a renewed City, with large tracts of new houses, roads, & c. Old ladies said “tu” to each other, and the Guardia Civil were smiling as you met them in the street ;=)

33 years ago, you didn’t meet them: you passed over to the other side...

There was also a new problem, much lamented by all, the “sin techos”; the without-roofs. They were living above the ventilation racks of the Subway. 33 years ago they didn’t live at all, they didn’t survive long enough to reach down-town from the outskirts – if they tried :-(

33 years ago, the subway itself was in its prime condition (circa 1918), now it was all new, new wagons and all. They used to be steel carcasses with no windows… Cattle transport, we thought.

Pluralist is right to ask “Where's the question on communal violence?” It’s all about the Gen-eral Level of Violence in Society.

But with Time no doubt – and the Gospel – Nigeria and all others will come around… It won't take a thousand years.

Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 9:48am GMT

"GAFCON is a gospel movement"

Does this have the same connotatioins in Nigeria? For me, this phrasing sounds incredibly fundamentalist.

"Anglicans who are orthodox and bible-believing Anglicans have a place in our Communion"

But all of us who read the Necronomicon at Black Mass every Sunday will drive them out!

"people who suffer from this problem can always come to the church for counseling"

First, I don't suffer from homosexuality, I suffer from the effects of bigots like +Akinola. Second, "counseling"? I can imagine the counseling a poor gay kid would get from him! So, I guess his position is that God will "cure" gay people if they come for it. So he makes bloody well sure they are too afraid to come for help, thus inevitably getting their just deserts from his punishing vindictive God.

"they are answerable to their God who created them."

He seems to forget he as well is answerable to God.

Posted by: Ford Elms on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 1:24pm GMT

Merry XmaS TO ALL AND SEASONS GREETINGS

IT REALLY GETS SOME FOLKS sENDING IT NOW !!

Posted by: Revd L Roberts on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 8:17pm GMT

Love your link, Charlotte. I personally lean toward the one wishing a happy Yuletide, Yule of course having been a pre-Christian pagan feast. I wonder how that would be received in Abuja?

Posted by: Nom de Plume on Monday, 8 December 2008 at 9:19pm GMT

"We are planning, by the grace of God, to meet with him and see how we can bridge bridges between where they stand, and where we stand within the Communion. This is because our aim is not to break the communion. Our aim is to work together and reform the Communion and ensure that Anglicans who are orthodox and bible-believing Anglicans have a place in our Communion."
- His Grace, the Archbishop of Nigeria. -

So, this is the Declaration of a 'New, Reformed Communion', into which Abp. Akinola is inviting all of us to participate - but only if we are not homosexual or tolerant of biblical hermeneutical study. Also, we would have to go along with the GAFCON 'Jerusalem Statement' which is not very Anglican at all.

The hubris of this prelate has not abated with the passage of time. His rebel leadership of the New Puritans must inevitably end in division.

My idea of a bridge is that it has access from both ends. The bridges Akinola is talking about is not a bridge at all but a one-way street.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Tuesday, 9 December 2008 at 4:12am GMT
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